George Yeo: Minister salaries has secret component

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Friday, 14 August 2009

Singapore Democrats

In the latest round of exchanges, between Dr Chee Soon Juan and Minister for Foreign Affairs George Yeo, Mr Yeo still would not reveal how much he is paid, saying that there is a discretionary component in the ministers' salaries that is "confidential". Dr Chee asks why this component - which makes up nearly half of the salary - should be kept secret.

Dear Dr Chee

Ministers salaries are in the public domain, reported in our newspapers and available in Parliamentary reports. Please contact This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it if you want details. The salary ranges include a discretionary component decided by the PM which is confidential.

On minimum wages, the question is one of balance. There is an optimal degree of protection which I tried to explain.

I broke bond in 1988 to enter politics and had to pay liquidated damages. Every case shd be assessed on its own merits.

George

Dear George,

First you say that ministers' salaries are in the public domain. Then you say that there is a discretionary component that is confidential. However you put it, the bottom-line is that ministers' salaries are secret. I don't understand why you keep insisting that they are in the public domain.

Just so that readers are clear: This discretionary component decided by the PM is not small - it makes up nearly half of each minister's salary.

This is where it infuriates Singaporeans. There are areas of governance which we can accept as necessary to keep confidential eg. sensitive issues of national defence. But why should your salary be kept a secret?

If Hillary Clinton, a US secretary of state no less, can make her pay a matter of public knowledge, what is it that you do that makes you so different from her?

I repeat that Singaporeans are not unreasonable, they can accept a robust explanation. Can you please tell readers why the discretionary component of your salary needs to be secret?

On Minimum Wage, I agree that it is one of balance - I wrote that in my previous email. I am saying that as you and the rich in Singapore can afford opulent lifestyles (didn't a top civil servant recently travel to Paris just to attend cooking lessons?), our working poor can't survive on their salaries - many end up committing suicide as a result.

There is not a balance.

Still on Minimum Wage, you say there is an optimal degree of protection. I know. For the rich. Singaporeans are asking for protection for the poor.

As for you breaking your bond, you said that each case should be assessed on its own merits. Can you tell readers why yours was different from the others?

Soon Juan

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Comments (50)

Fri 14 Aug 2009 5:11 PM | maxchew - The secret component is performance bonuses

First-class riposte, Dr Chee!

The secret component GY talks about is the so-called "performance bonus" payable on Apr 12 every year to all civil servants, political office-holders inclusive.

But there is a glaring gap betw the riff-raffs(non/low superscalers) and the elite of the CS (high superscalers as well as the political leaders including even the President, believe it or not).

Whilst an ordinary public officer will get just 1-3 mths perf bonus, the elite like perm secys, police and army chiefs and of course the Ministers will get anything from 6 mths to 11 mths perf bonus per year!

Performance bonuses for the civil service have been kept confidential/secretive since they were payable some 15 years ago.

But in an interview which was published in the ST some years back, PM LHL himself admitted that he paid himself a perf bonus of 3 months (self-sacrifice man!) but 11 months for 2 Ministers (one of whom must surely be Min WKS!) for that year.Check the ST archives if you don't believe me!

When they say it's "legitimized corruption", they were absolutely correct and u better believe it!

Fri 14 Aug 2009 6:10 PM | BryanT - Mountains and Molehills

[color=red]"Ministers salaries are in the public domain, reported in our newspapers and available in Parliamentary reports. .....The salary ranges include a discretionary component decided by the PM which is confidential."[/color]

I read the statement above clearly stating that the salary range INCLUDES the discretionary component. Most of us are employees would interpret it as a basic salary plus a performance bonus, the latter being decided by the PM.

I don't think many of us would begrudge the government not to reveal how much PB each individual minister is finally awarded since assessments of performances are staff-in-confidence in private or public organisations. In any case, the maximum salary (basic salary + max PB) is the top of the salary range that is openly available. Nothing secretive about that.

If the discretionary component is large, this means that the basic salary component is small. All the better since it would work against any lacklustre ministers.

Whether due to his usual playful character or willful misinterpretation (probably both), CSJ attempts yet again to raise an outcry over an accepted norm - in this case over the confidentiality of employee performance bonuses.

If it makes CSJ happier, he can assume that all ministers earn the maximum level in the salary range published.

Fri 14 Aug 2009 7:18 PM | maxchew - Reply to BryanT

Mr BryanT.......we are talking of a base salary of the Ministers at $200k pm and the holytrio (Prez+MM+SM) at $300k pm!!! And yet they still want somemore perf bonus of 6-11 months? Money no enough? eOr even more than 11 mths? (Someone told me the sky is the limit for our Ministers). Guess what 11 mths of $200,000 which 2 Ministers got a few years back amount to? $2, 200,000! Their nett income for that particular year is therefore $4.6 million each. And we have not even included their year-end bonuses and MP's salary of $14k!!!.
This type of income for public servants from public coffers is not only humongous but obscene and outrageous!
We are all ok with workers like insurance/realty agents who are paid small monthly salaries but rewarded with pretty good commissions for each sale they succeed. This gives them the motivation...the more sales the more income. Good for them and good for the company's profits.

But our erstwhile Ministers? Shaking their legs and counting their money often coming in drives and droves! Am I proud of my Ministers and even the President? What do you think, BryanT?

Fri 14 Aug 2009 11:13 PM | quantum

[quote]willful misinterpretation [/quote]
Or is it more like : in depth and illuminating analysis of things wilfully hidden?
[quote]this means that the basic salary component is small.[/quote]
You really think that they are so poorly paid?
[quote]confidentiality of employee performance bonuses[/quote]
[quote]Nothing secretive about that.[/quote]
Self-contradiction

Fri 14 Aug 2009 11:59 PM | lockeliberal - G Yeo's salary

Dear Max

One is double counting. If his statement is that the total salary is inclusive of the performance bonus and the published figure for a Minister say at MFA is 1.8 million, then the base is probably around 80,000 a month. If the figures are to be debated and discussed, the parameters should be set clearly about what is know and what is not. For example total salary payable is known aka 1.8 million as listed on the budget and public documents and it includes the bonus and variable component.

Locke

Sat 15 Aug 2009 12:44 AM | BryanT - lockeliberal - thanks

[color=red]"One is double counting"[/color]

lockeliberal, thanks for the clarification. I couldn't point out to Max where he went wrong, because my maths is so screwed up.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 12:46 AM | BryanT - lockeliberal

lockeliberal, you want to help me with vocab as well? I'm somewhat stuck with quantum.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 12:56 AM | maxchew - Ministers' current salary is >$2 million per year!

Our PAP Ministers' current base salary is $80k? No way, that was their salary back in 1990. $80k is what our HighCourt judges and the Police/SAF Chiefs are getting now.
If we can calculate easily from their nett salaries published regularly what they got for their performance bonuses, then it's no longer confidential! And GY himself said it's CONFIDENTIAL.....it's probably 6-12 months payouts for each of them and kept so confidential that only PM Lee and the IRAS chief (plus the IT/chief of bank their money is deposited) will know the exact figures.The fig of $1.8 million quoted is his base salary plus year-end bonuses plus MP salary but minus the performance bonus!

Amendment to my prev posting....Shld be "the holy quartet of Prataman, MM, SM and PM"!

Sat 15 Aug 2009 7:27 AM | hechua

Dr Chee,

No point debating. You think those sycophantic Ministers do not know that they are actually engaging in Leegalised corruption by paying themselves with excessive salaries and perks. Of course, they know they are corrupting. But they just don't care.

Old fart and his sycophantic Ministers are treating Singapore just like a milking cow. They would milk the cow as much and as fast as possible. In other words, they would acquire as much wealth and as fast as possible so that their next 1000 generations to come would always live in luxury and security.

This is the typical mentality of Chinese political elites since ancient China. They were prepared to screw their country and countrymen for their owned benefits especially when they knew that their country was going to fall. Good examples are the Ching Dynasty and the Konmintung. When China was falling during that time, the monarchy, the feudal lords and the army generals openly corrupted with tremendous wealth and transferred it to other countries. They took this opportunity because the Chinese people then were too apathetic and too concern with their daily life to question and challenge the authority.

This is exactly happening in Singapore now. Old fart and the sycophantic Ministers knew that Singapore as a city nation would not last long. In fact, signs are every where that Singapore will collapse soon. The MNCs are relocating to other countries, the GLCs are losing money; the SMEs remain as SMEs after so many years, the national reserves are dwindling and unaccounted, outstanding Singaporeans are emigrating by thousands every month, youngsters are reluctant to serve in the national service, the adults are not marrying and procreating, the country is dumped with all kinds of migrant workers, the list can go on. Therefore all these political leeches have to enrich themselves as soon as possible before it is too late.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 4:19 AM | dumbo

these hypocrites know that spore is doomed after being screwed big time by the familee, .
anyone out there care to compile a list of the minister's children who are already living overseas, either on the pretext of studying, working or what have you.
would the billionaire familee needs the extra few millions to be made the laughing stock of the world as the highest pm? no manz, the few millions are for their doggies and sidekicks like georgie yeo, as lhl put it - to buy their loyalty.
So geogie yeo, we peasants will feel better that you just keep your mouth shut instead of you, a god fearing man, rubbing salts into our wounds.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 5:33 AM | tangeo

I absolutely disagree with hechua. The debate must go on. Singaporeans can then see what our ministers are worth. Why are the newspapers not carrying any news about this? Only the internet community knows this. Can SDP or internet savvy communicators get the word out as widely as possible?

It is soooo important for Singaporeans to know about this debate.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 5:25 PM | BryanT - dumbo - Salt, anyone?

[color=red]"So geogie yeo, we peasants will feel better that you just keep your mouth shut instead of you, a god fearing man, rubbing salts into our wounds."[/color]

GY is replying because CSJ posed the questions. He is being accommodating despite the tone of the questions asked.

If GY does not reply, CSJ will proclaim that GY is trying to conceal something.

You may want to reconsider [b]who is dispensing the salt[/b].

Sat 15 Aug 2009 6:04 AM | quantum

[quote]I absolutely disagree with hechua. The debate must go on. [/quote]
But BryanT says Dr Chee is making mountains out of molehills and have twisted or misinterpreted the facts intentionally.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 4:57 PM | BryanT - hechua - Armageddon is coming?

[color=red]"In fact, signs are every where that Singapore will collapse soon."[/color]

I am very interested to know when the collapse is coming so that we can book the air-tickets.

Can tell us when?

Sat 15 Aug 2009 6:21 AM | BryanT - quantum - Pyrrhic mountains

[color=red]"But BryanT says Dr Chee is making mountains out of molehills"
[/color]

quantum, I didn't exactly say CSJ was making mountains out of molehills. Come to think of it, he is probably making both the molehills and mountains.

But never mind, let him revel in his Pyrrhic victory while it lasts.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 7:20 AM | hechua

BryanT,

Of course, we peasants would not know when Singapore is collapsing because the political leeches are keeping us out from the truth. If we know, you think they still would have opportunity to engage in Leegalised corruption.

Lehman Brothers is a good example. The management kept on impressing their employees, shareholders and clients that the company was still viable and strong until the day it collapsed. By the time it collapsed, all the senior managers had already paid themselves with horrendous bonuses. The rest had to eat grass.

By the way, Bryan not all chinese christians have to give themselves an english or a christian name. Dr Chee is one good example.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 7:37 AM | quantum

Yes, BryanT. So according to you, Dr Chee fabricated everything out of nothing right ? He is a cheater, a liar, a dishonest guy with no integrity right?

Sat 15 Aug 2009 7:58 AM | AN - Agree with You - Hechua

As the title suggest, agree 100% with you Hechua. Very similar situation compared to the 'Ching Dynasty' & 'KuoMinTang' era.

Hechua, doesn't matter the Familee accumulates all his wealth here. No one can bring all his/her wealth to the graveyard!

Just as we are born into 3 beings (Physical, Mental & Emotion), whatever we accumulates here on earth, ain't no matter. It all depends on what values & objectives we are after in this journey call life.

As we attempt to take very good care of our physical well being while on earth, sadly many has taken the short cut route to self accomplishments at all costs!

The day will come when all of us have to face judgement from our Creator. And when that day comes, it ain't matter whether you are the President, Prime Minister, CEO, toilet cleaner, garbage collector etc.

We have to be accountable to our actions on earth.

From my encounters with Dr Chee, hand to heart, he is a man with compassion. Think about it, a trained Neuro Psycologist with a PHD, how far can he get if he chooses to work in an MNC or anywhere in the world?

It is because that he has the passion, compassion and a thing that all of us has called 'Conscience' that he so passionately fights for the minority, the poor and the disadvantaged in our tiny red dot that he ended up being a bankrupt. So much so for being a First World? In Dr Chee's words, for whom? And First World Governments don't sue their adversaries!

In the words of Albert Einstein, 'The World is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and DO NOTHING'!

Guys go google this Letter written by the late REV Martin Luther King Junior while he was in prison. It is a very inspiring letter of all times which eventually eradicates the racist discrimination in US.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 8:07 AM | Robox - Measures Of Success

While we can conmtinue arguing over the rightness or wrongness of Dr Chee's initiative to ask George Yeo questions that Singaporeans themselves have been discussing and for years, it is important to note that the comments have centered on two things: [b]style[/b] and [b]content[/b].

This is not surprising in the political culture created by the PAP in where there is constant admonishment to stifle both style and to in turn stifle debate.

But let's consider Dr Chee's success using other indicators:

1. This story has been picked up by other blogs.

2. 130 posts have been written here on the topic so far. Unprecedented.

3. The range of topics was wide, and there was unprecedented depth and breadth in each of those topics.

4. Many new nicks have appeared since this topic

Would the above count as success?

Sat 15 Aug 2009 8:52 AM | Stanley

Dr Chee is banned from participating in elections by the PAP. His adversaries see him as too strong a competition?

Dr Chee can even debate state policies with Lee Kuan Yew in court, something not even PAP MPs dare do in parliament.

That says a lot.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 10:49 AM | Robox - On Secrecy of Ministerial Salaries

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/ministers-salaries-includes-a-confidential-discretionary-component-says-george-yeo/

Re: [color=red]"In April 2007, Singapore’s Parliament debated the issue of ministerial salaries. Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, in defending the proposed revision then, said, “We have decided to be open, upfront, transparent – what you see is what you get (Wysiwyg), or, in this case, what you see is what they get.”[/color]

Sat 15 Aug 2009 5:27 PM | BryanT - quantum - Logic and Noises

[color=red]So according to you, Dr Chee fabricated everything out of nothing right ? He is a cheater, a liar, a dishonest guy with no integrity right?[/color]

quantum, I [b]DO NOT[/b] think CSJ is a liar or dishonest guy. On the contrary, I think he is a very clever and eloquent person.

Unfortunately, he has taken on a mode that is appealing to a small segment of the population but quite a turn-off to the rest. On the balance, it is [b]counterproductive [/b] because his good messages are mixed with the twisted ones and those tainted with venom. He tries to appeal more to the sentiments of the small pool, but not the wider population. It become hard to differentiate between logic and noises and one can easily miss one for the other, or even take the easy way out - simply shut off from listening to him.

PS. At least some of still put in effort to read and listen to every word he says, even if we are not always convinced. Similarly, we listen to the ministers, but occasionally roll our eyes after hearing what they spout.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 5:14 PM | BryanT - hechua - One-way tickets...but where to?

[color=red]"we peasants would not know when Singapore is collapsing because the political leeches are keeping us out from the truth." [/color]

hechua, that is an interesting point. One possibility is that the [i]"leeches" [/i](your word) have already fatten up their swiss accounts and booked one-way airtickets out of Singapore. The other possibility is that even they don't know whether there will be a collapse. Because just like the way equity market functions, it's not science but partly driven by human sentiments, something which is hard to quantify and control. Of course, another possibility is that there isn't any armageddon, at least not soon.

I'm betting on the last possibility (because I'm still holding on to my STI ETF). What to wager a bet with me?

As to the point about adopting anglicised names, I agree that not all christians do so. I am not even aware whether they are obliged to do so (from this statement you know that I am not Christian...haha).

My point is that we should not judge a person by the name one adopts. I have no problems with the name my parents gave me, but my angmo frens have problems pronouncing it sometimes, as much as we get frustrated with the french for their silent "t" and "s".

Sat 15 Aug 2009 5:21 PM | quantum

[quote]think he is a very clever and eloquent person.
Unfortunately, he has taken on a mode ..., it is counterproductive [/quote]
You are contradicting yourself. If a person is doing counterproductive work, how can he be clever?
[quote]I DO NOT think CSJ is a liar or dishonest guy.....mixed with those twisted ones and venom.[/quote]
You are contradicting yourself again . How can an honest and sincere guy use twisted words and venom?

Noise, BryanT, noise.

[quote]From my encounters with Dr Chee, hand to heart, he is a man with compassion. Think about it, a trained Neuro Psycologist with a PHD, how far can he get if he chooses to work in an MNC or anywhere in the world?[/quote]
Actually I sometimes wonder why Dr Chee not go back to research?

Sat 15 Aug 2009 6:57 PM | tangeo

hechua,

Don't take everything that BryanT says seriously. Oftentimes he talks through his hat.

Debate and set the facts right if you must. But don't let this debate grow cold. That is exactly the PAP tactic. They hope that this will blow over really fast.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 8:54 PM | hechua

BryanT,

What lousy excuse are you giving. If your angmo friends have problem pronouncing your chinese name, that is their problem. Will an angmo adopt a chinese name to make it easier for you to pronounce. Besides, is it really that difficult to pronounce chinese names like Soon Juan, Hsien Loong, Kuan Yew, etc for the angmos even if the chinese names are written in english.

It is not a matter of judging a person by his or her name. But what you accept for yourself reflects your self-dignity. Why Harry Lee dropped his name Harry and wanted to be called as Kuan Yew after he returned from England?

BryanT, from your fanciful name which I have to roll my tongue like po-pian wrapper to pronounce it, I really don't know whether you are chinese, indian, angmo or whatever you are. But if you are not angmo, pls wake up. Whatever race you are, treat yourself equal to any other race. Don't always make things convenient for the angmos.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 9:32 PM | Seelan Palay

In fact, because of this exchange by Dr Chee, even TOC has written an article touching on the Ministers' salaries: [url]http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/ministers-salaries-includes-a-confidential-discretionary-component-says-george-yeo/[/url]

Sat 15 Aug 2009 10:20 PM | dumbo - bryan t

bryan: GY is replying because CSJ posed the questions. He is being accommodating despite the tone of the questions asked --------- imagine madoff arguing his defence in court

Sat 15 Aug 2009 10:23 PM | lockeliberal - What is G Yeo paid ?

Dear Bryan

What is known. MFA's 2009 estimates for Political Appointee's 3.2 million in total. Two Minister of states and one second Minister, but they do not get paid for dual appointments but for the first if I remember reading correctly. Minister of State's get paid above PSs so in total about 800K per Minister of State and about 1.6 million for George inclusive of bonuses In fact looking at expenditure estimates for 2007 and 2006 and the no of political appointee;s ....it seems that dear old georgie's pay has been pretty stagnant.

I guess the issue remains whether public salary should be known to the cent or whether a range remains enough

Locke

Sun 16 Aug 2009 12:01 AM | BryanT - hechua - Yes Sir

[color=red]"Whatever race you are, treat yourself equal to any other race. Don't always make things convenient for the angmos."[/color]

hechua, yes sir.... I will not make life easier for the angmos.

PS. this discussion about names is a bit off-topic, so I better restrain myself.

Sat 15 Aug 2009 11:59 PM | quantum

[quote]known to the cent or whether a range remains enough[/quote]
You want public money to be known to the cent or to just a microscopic error of +- 10 million dollars?

Sun 16 Aug 2009 1:12 AM | BryanT - lockeliberal - last cent or last blood

[color=red]"I guess the issue remains whether public salary should be known to the cent or whether a range remains enough."[/color]

lockeliberal, thanks for the info. As to whether "public salary should be known to the cent", or to what level of detail, I'd say it usually depends on the purpose underlying the quest.

If it's to hold a politician accountable for suspected crimes such as fraud or money-laundering, perhaps we (or someone) need to know to the last dollar the sources of his funds. Otherwise, a range would suffice, for discussion and comparative purposes.

But since in this case the objective is to [b]draw ridicule and achieve some shock-effect[/b], I suppose the clamour will not conclude until the [b]last blood (or cent)[/b] is drawn. Otherwise some would continue to allude to some conspiracy to hide, or suggest their own numbers (as we have seen attempted here).

Let me offer a quote from James Geary : [i]The mind revels in conjecture. Where information is lacking, it will gladly fill in the gaps.[/i]

Have a good weekend!

Sun 16 Aug 2009 12:58 AM | lockeliberal - Known to the cent

Dear Quantum

In the 2009 budget, we were given to the cent how much was spent in 2008 in total versus the actual estimates and projections in the Budget Book. The question is the level of microscopic detail u require.

Locke

Sun 16 Aug 2009 1:18 AM | BryanT - dumbo - Court of the Internet

[color=red]"imagine madoff arguing his defence in court"[/color]

dumbo, no, I don't think that the way I had put it would be a decent argument for Madoff to put across during his trial. But I don't recall that GY being on trial or accused on any crimes on the penal code.

Or perhaps we are talking about the [b]Court of the Internet[/b], with it's own set of statutes and procedures?

Sun 16 Aug 2009 1:33 AM | Low Fuk Loong - The chief issue is about singapore and its citizen

The question here is not about Dr Chee.

Dr Chee is merely speaking up for the people of singapore--in other words, for the singapore local citizens.

Touch your heart, who else as PAP millionaires, dare to ask seriuos questions at the parliament?
Laugh dead people right? Asking them to speak up?

The chief issue is if Civil servants have different scales and can have a pay scale they deem fit to have a quality lifestyle, why not apply to the commoners as well?
You cannot suka suka just follow the MTI, and comfortably forget about the living costs.

My friends, old fart just realised staggering number of locals not married. Why ? The answer is simple-- cannot afford.

HDB 3- room flat resale unit --now costs at 250k to 280k, excluding renovation costs. Remainder COV is paid cash to HDB so it could pay the seller.

Singapore education is get good grades, get a job and get married and pay HDB for life and make more boys to serve NS so Marina Pontoon stays forever !
This is singapore, no money you die!

Then if you talk about salary scale, you have to factor the expenses amidst the harsh environs.

Minimum wage is the balance of society in a first world country, if leaders can only pay themselves out -of -the world salary, and ignoring the peasants' part becos singapore must stay competitive in cheap labor cost to attract investors( this is akin to asking the peasants to drink poison) , then they are no less than swines and pigs that feed on pigswill , PTUI!

Sun 16 Aug 2009 2:58 AM | dumbo - bryan t - no counrt lah!

just an analogy lah, madoff after screwing the investors and georgie & familee screwing the peasants .. both trying to justify their position.

btw, dunno any court of internet, maybe you meant kangaroo court :)

Sun 16 Aug 2009 8:25 AM | quantum

[quote]If it's to hold a politician accountable for suspected crimes[/quote]
It wouldn't be a crime even if they raise their salary to 100 million per month, rest assured BryanT, your beloved Ministers will not be touched by the law.
[quote]versus the actual estimates and projections in the Budget Book.[/quote]
You mean they can estimate and project their bonuses and have announced to the people, long before CSJ asked about it?
[quote]draw ridicule and achieve some shock-effect[/quote]
They have already done that to themselves, by drawing a pay higher than Obama.

Sun 16 Aug 2009 5:22 PM | | seebeng - PAP ministers' salaries??

It's a disingenuous claim by PAP propagandists that a minister's salary is disclosed in the Budget submitted to parliament.

Their lie is exposed by George Yeo's own admission that there is a discretionary component in the ministers' salaries that is "confidential".

When I did a google on US secretary of state's salary, it was there. But the same search on GY did not produce the desired result. So much for the boast to uninformed audience by PM and MM that our ministers' salaries are in the public domain.

Sun 16 Aug 2009 6:56 PM | BryanT - dumbo - good one, good one!

[color=red]"btw, dunno any court of internet, maybe you meant kangaroo court :)"[/color]

Wiki says : [i]The term "kangaroo court" may have been popularized during the California Gold Rush of 1849. The first recorded usage is from 1853 in a Texas context.[1] It comes from the notion of justice proceeding "by leaps", like the eponymous marsupial.[/i]

I can't imagine our judges doing leaps - too hazardous for them. And for the rest of us and the plaintiffs, dangerous too, because we will die laughing...

Sun 16 Aug 2009 7:00 PM | BryanT - seebeng - PB is not Pork-barrel

"When I did a google on US secretary of state's salary, it was there."

Maybe that's why legislature hardly gets moved in the US, because the various "Secretaries" are not motivated by the offer of PBs. But I suppose the pork-barrel cover that shortfall.

Funny, both performance bonus and port-barrel have the same acronym. Why ah?

Sun 16 Aug 2009 11:46 PM | Clear eyed

Dear Dr Chee

Thanks for asking our self-appointed elites the questions Singaporeans dare not or do not have the opportunities to ask. I look forward to more such searching questions from you. Hopefully, as the elites try to disentangle themselves from the rope tightening around them (lies, complacency and negligence have resulted in a lot of slack!)the wool will be stripped away from the eyes of more Singaporeans.

Sun 16 Aug 2009 11:47 PM | quantum

[quote]Maybe that's why legislature hardly gets moved in the US[/quote]
What do you mean?

Mon 17 Aug 2009 12:48 AM | | seebeng - Why should it be confidential?

BryanT,

Interestingly, yesterday's ST reported on British ministers' salary.

On page C21, the report said: British cabinet ministers receive 79,754 pound sterling in ministerial pay on top of a salary of 64,766 pounds for being a Member of Parliament. In total, they make 144,520 pound sterling.

Even to the last digit in British minister's pay it is accounted for.

But in PAP Singapore, not only the ministers but also their siblings and offspring are taken care of by the hundreds of government and Temasek linked companies. How much is being looted is kept "confidential".

Mon 17 Aug 2009 3:27 AM | quantum

[quote]Interestingly, yesterday's ST reported on British ministers' salary...But in PAP Singapore, not only the ministers but also their siblings and offspring are taken care of by the hundreds of government and Temasek linked companies.[/quote]
The British had the good sense to throw away their own brand of social Darwinism - also known as Thatcherism, many years ago. They just could not see the rich trample on the poor. This is simply morally wrong. Even LKY's wife cannot jump queue in their hospitals there.
And they are humane and enlightened enough to remove the death sentence and legalize homosexuality.
In the UK, democracy rules and the government leaders are elected by the people and have to answer to the questions raised by the people. I do not know whether these Singapore ministers and their children have learn anything in their years of education in the UK, beside passing well in exams there.

Mon 17 Aug 2009 8:29 PM | BryanT - Budget for Welfare and Subsidies.

Since we have been talking about it, I was looking through MOF's website for ministers' salary, but found out the projected 09 budget for the various welfare and other subsidy schemes instead.

Numbers are in $Bn. I deleted the 08 numbers to make it readable but you can find it here
http://www.mof.gov.sg/budget_2009/speech_ph/annexe.pdf

Jobs Credit Scheme 3.38
Special Risk-Sharing Initiative (SRI)δ 0.39
Growth Dividends -
GST Credits 0.46
Senior Citizens’ Bonus 0.12
Workfare Income Supplement Scheme Special Payment 0.10
U-Save Scheme 0.12
S&CC and Rental Rebate 0.07
Top-Up to CPF Medisave Accounts -
Top-ups to Post-Secondary Education Account 0.00
Other measures for Elderly and Lower Income# 0.03
Assistance to Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) 0.02
R&D Incentive for Start-up Enterprises (RISE) 0.05

Mon 17 Aug 2009 10:55 PM | | seebeng - Still searching...

BryanT,

I thought one of the PAP apologists from whom you wanted to seek guidance had claimed that the ministers' salaries are clearly stated in the Budget tabled in parliament?

Why is it so difficult to get this information in PAP Singapore whose leaders keep repeating that they are honest, incorruptible and talented?

Tue 18 Aug 2009 3:52 AM | BryanT - seebeng - cents or sense?

[color=red]"I thought one of the PAP apologists from whom you wanted to seek guidance had claimed that the ministers' salaries are clearly stated in the Budget tabled in parliament?"[/color]

Seebeng, no lah, Locke did not claim that. If I read correctly, he said he found the salary ranges for the ministers. He was just wondering why some people need to know to the last cent.

I was not looking for that. I was just trying my luck to see whether MOF totals up salaries of all ministers as a number for accounting purposes. Maybe the brothers here at the SDP website then would be ecstatic if they can see this number. Then they can bash the ministers even more.

Anyway, I did not expect to find it since individual ministers payroll could be accounted under their respective ministries. I know, you guys will call it hidden again. Besides, I am lousy with government websites.

PS. I need to correct you, bro. I don't think PAP website would have this info on the salaries; gov.sg more likely. Looks like you are worse than me when it comes to searching info on the website.

Tue 18 Aug 2009 5:05 AM | | seebeng - Why is it so difficult to find....

Why is it so difficult to find how much a PAP minister is paid?

Even the budget tabled in parliament is not much help either. There is no particular head under which one could find the exact amount paid to a minister.

Even GY admitted that there is a discretionary component in the ministers' salaries that is "confidential".

So much for our honest, incorruptible, efficient and highly talented "team" of ministers headed by an equally honest and skilled prime minister LHL.

Tue 18 Aug 2009 7:40 AM | BryanT - seebeng

seebeng, looks like you have deliberately omitted our earlier discussion that the "discretionary" component which is confidential is probably the performance bonus. The latter is contained WITHIN the salary range that is published.

If it makes you happy, just [b]assume that every minister earn the maximum in the salary range[/b]. I'm very sure it is in the Hansard, but give me a break, I'm too lazy (and old) to search again.

Tue 18 Aug 2009 5:40 PM | | seebeng - Why so...difficult to disclose?

The prime minister and the Minister Mentor have gone on record to say that what is paid to a minister is what has been made known, and nothing more. So, there should be no room for "probabilities" or "assumptions".

It is not that I want to be happy, but as a taxpayer I've the right to know how much each minister gets. The Hansard, like the Budget is silent on this. Why?

There shouldn't be any secret payment by a government that keeps trumpeting that it's honest and incorruptible.