Singapore Democrats

Well said Dr Chee!!!! Dr Balak is dying and is trying to get out of this insane situation whereby having to meet 3 outstanding SDP candidates and his own MO head Col Dr Ang, too bad for him in Holland-Bukit Timah GRC. He will use anything just to stay there. May God has mercy on his soul.

SDP gave a clear, concise and prompt response, wtihout beating around the bush and confusing fellow Singaporeans.

This is what we need in our government.

Oh boy...i think Dr Vivian ought to be trembling right now.

Would be interesting what his response or the PAP's might be.

However, I highly doubt he will accept that invitation.

Lets see!

This is truly a Democrats Party. A wholistic party, a well rounded party that is very inclusive with Social Worker, ex-ISA detainee, entrepreneur...and also a gay person.

The usual candidates from the Ruling Party
Army Generals, Unionist and Bankers, do they look like Elitist Party???
Is it, okay to say Ms Tin is a FREELOADER
American Dictionary means A freeloader is someone who exploits chances to get free stuff whenever possible .
Hmm, time to let other people shine...bye, bye

http://singaporeelection.blogspot.com/2011/04/homelessness-in-singapore-pap-refuse-to.html

In one fell swoop, Dr Balakrishnan has managed to turn the spotlight onto his opponents, while obfuscating the very real issues that Dr Wijeysingha and Mr Tan have raised about the economy.

Dr Balakrishnan engaged in gutter politics and character assassination. He must be exposed and the his brand of politics discredited.

Kudos Dr.Chee for your prompt and precise rebuttal.

Well, as mentioned before, this will not be the end, but rather the start of more debates, retaliations, smearing, sabotaging, disgracing etc.......to come, not only from Dr.Bala, but the whole PAP team, including all local medias, in whatevermanner deemed possible, in the destruction of SDP as a whole in this GE. Why??? It's all merely due to usual 'PAP FEAR'.

Nevertheless, believe Singaporeans are literate enough to understand about PAP motives, on the smearing campaign styles at every election, which they are famous for.

CHEERS SDP! GO SDP GO!

Great, Internet has made it possible for forceful, timely rebuttal against lies and innuendo, even before ST or Zaobao print them on their front page tomorrow.

Is this smearing campaign initiated by Vivian? No, I think he just carried out his party war plan. But this time, they are going to lose it big time. Ng Eng Hen tried it on Chen Shao Mao, and had to swallowed the shit thrown back to his face. They just never learnt.

Would SDP please make similar videos in other languages to reach out to the non-English speaking voters?

I am deeply disappointed with the SDP and Dr Chee if this is the stand they are taking on the legal equality of LGBT Singaporeans.

On the one hand, Dr Chee says that the SDP doesn't discriminate against any Singaporeans. Well and good.

On the other hand, he unequivocally states that the SDP will not pursue "The Gay Agenda", an agenda that even I as a gay man am confounded by. If Dr Chee or any other SDP member had kept themselves abreast with gay issues, they would have known that "The Gay Agenda" is a part of the smear campaign that began in the US with their Christian Right and has been duly picked up, uncritically, by their counterparts in Singapore. "The Gay Agenda" harbours, according to their hate-filled hearts, a hidden agenda as well.

That's where I will debunk the SDP's assertion if the party has been duped into thinking along the same lines: LGBT activists have been nothing if not open about what we have been fighting for.

I am going to be more pointed: Will any SDP elected member (or NCMP) speak up for the repeal of S377a in Parliament, or the amendment or introduction of any new legislation to ensure that equality, if that what the party means by NOT pursuing The Gay Agenda?

Shame on you Vivian and your other 3, not only have you all shown how lacking you are in your maturity and integrity, you also owed SDP and all Singaporean an apology for wasting everybody's time.

Well done Dr Chee, you have spoken succintly and unequivocally...this is precisely why PAP is sooo afraid of having you and SDP in parliament.

As for all other candidates in SDP, keep it up, all of you are more than qualified and deserving to represent Singaporean in Parliament.

Robox:
There are many issues to settle. Get SDP into parliament first, and SDP will settle the issues for you, in order of priority. Now the prority: (1) The Economy (2) What is the status of Singaporeans vs Foreigners? These are the two main issues that will really kill the PAP. And the PAP knows that, so don't fall into their traps and get tricked by them.

quantum, in all due respect, I only support parties who FIRST make their position on MY legal quality clear first.

What's the use of talking about the economy and economic opportunities - for me as well, mind you - when I was in fact fired from a job for being gay, with no avenue for redress?

As far as I am concerned, any talk about the economy and economic opportunities from now is a STRAIGHT issue that excludes me.

Robox,

You should direct your disappointment and anger to the pap, who are responsible for your predicaments.

I agree with Robox about the 'gay agenda', I hope Dr Chee will refrain from using the term again.

There is no 'gay agenda'. It is only a term used by those who want to incite fear against homosexuals, by insinuating that the gays have a big scary plan to force themselves into power, brainwash children into becoming homosexuals etc.

Thus I hope that Dr Chee will not use the term, not propagate this false notion of a 'gay agenda' and spread homophobia.

Do not do unto others what you do not want other to do to you. Standard line but who practices it?
The latest news on SDP Vincent W no doubt rankles all. Spurious insinuation and sexual innuendos had never been part and parcel of Singapore politics. And it should be kept out as we can witness what gutter politics can do to the mind and soul when its done ad nauseam. Just witness across the Causeway where poison pen letters, sex video clips, insinuation of this sexual escapade and that ( ala Anwar, Chua Soi Lek, DP Vijendran, etc) is the modus operandi.
Now this latest saga had happened. CSJ had categorically come out and state that SDP nor any of his candidates pursue gay agenda in a video statement on their website.
So now the shoe is in the other foot. For drawing blur associations and implying in an indirect nature that Vincent W and his party are pursuing gay agenda, the onus is on the accuser. So show empirical evidence so that we may know. For if there is none, should not Vincent W employ the favourite the tactic popularized by the incumbents, which is to sue for defamation for merely even implying one's honour and reputation is tainted?

Great and prompt response! Kudos to SDP!

VB's statement is going to backfire on him. People recognise that this is hitting below the belt and see it as being quite vicious. Add to that his YOG fiasco and it looks to me that SDP will win.

Because of these underhanded tactics by the PAP, SDP should be very, very careful every step of the way. Especially on Nomination Day, and also during campaigning. Please be well prepared for any contingencies.

Best wishes and good luck!

When it comes down to the crunch, the SDP is no different from parties like WP which prostitutes for votes from decidedly anti-PAP voters, but will instruct their candidates - with implications for how staunchly WP supporters vote - to vote for the PAP instead, and especially against the SDP.

The SDP has been making a HUGE pretence of being pro-gay, but in reality is only prostituting for votes from the gay community so that their candidates can earn the astronomical salaries due to their elected members.

But the SDP will NOT be supporting the legal equality of LGBT Singaporeans.

And why not, coming from the second party that is proportionately most Christian, whom I had previously and mistakenly believed were "true Christians".

As it stands, the RP is so far the ONLY party that has made an explicit pro-repeal stand with regards to S377a.

The SDP is laggard in that regard.

Very disappointed with the PAP and Dr Bala and also MCYS which is an organization I was once part of. I must admit I nearly cried this smear campaign greeted me on the news. Very sad the PAP. Not accountable for YOG but decides to character assassinate Dr Vincent.

I went to see my PAP walkover MP today in the meet-the-people session regarding the illegal display of PAP flags and about 2 hrs later, they removed half of it.

If I heard of this news earlier, I would have talked to my MP, Dr Amy Khor regarding this smear campaign.

I waited 10 years to vote Dr Amy Khor out of goodwill but now sadly, I am voting her & PAP out due to resent and anger, which is just sad.

Dr Vincent, thanks for the conversation during the walkabout. You have my full support.

@Robox

Let’s be realistic. Focusing on practicalities will enable us to achieve our objectives.

What’s our objective right now? Get the Oppo MPs into parliament. Correct me if I’m wrong.

It is prudent for the Oppo parties to stick to the middle ground on issues, if they are to get into parliament. They cannot address issues concerning minority groups at the expense of the interests of the majority of the population. If they do, it will be to their detriment and their loss in the elections. And we are back to square one and you will continue to remain a disadvantaged and unjustly treated gay.

The fact is, the mainstream view on this matter is not liberal enough yet to embrace gay rights.

It is unfair and wrong of you to say that any discussion of economic issues is a straight agenda, just by reason of your having once lost your job due to your being gay. That simply doesn’t make sense.

Not all companies discriminate against gays. E.g. I have seen many gays employed by our local banks. You are intelligent and articulate, and should go far in life. Why get fixated on that past unfortunate event and define your whole life and future and even ideology by it?

Your enemy is the PAP, not the SDP. The PAP, through VB’s remark, has shown that they despise gays. Actually, they despise anyone who isn’t an elite, which means virtually all Singaporeans.

The SDP is your friend. They have clearly stated that they respect and uphold the diverse rights of all Singaporeans, including the special rights of our gay fellow-Singaporeans. A total contrast to PAP.

I am Christian, BTW, but I don’t subscribe to the clerical (as opposed to spiritual) view that gays are sinners and should be outlawed. My belief is that God made each one of us and cannot help but love us all. It is us human beings who cause pain, misery and suffering to others with our dark side.

Cheers!

The SDP with such a fast response showed your anticipation of what was to come and Vivian with such a calibre, would easily fall into the trap. Teo Chee Hean, perhaps after all these, is down coming from Hougang (He is currently helping Desmond Choo). Anyway, someone from the PAP will come to rescue Vivian the incompetent and homophobic.

Not to be sidetracked by Vivian B’s statement, liberalisation is a very precarious and delicate thing - it's never set in stone.

While the threat of the new right (in the form of Vivian) cannot be underestimated, with Dr Chee's statement, I cannot help but feeling that the liberal clock has been forcibly turned back here. LGBT issue is being picked out as the "scapegoat" here by Vivian. However, the shame is not only from the reactions from Vivian. This is not a gay agenda only. It is of a fellow human pleas for the basic rights.

Perhaps this is the beginning of a new SDP behaving more like a political party. I can accept that.

But as time goes by, any unjust must be corrected and be allowed to see that light of the day.

"On the other hand, he unequivocally states that the SDP will not pursue "The Gay Agenda", an agenda that even I as a gay man am confounded by"

Why confounded? Democratic means rule of the majority. Unfortunately, majority of Singaporeans are pretty much ultra conservative. SDP is not going to win if they pursue "The Gay Agenda", that's just political strategy. Unfortunately, there's no party in Singapore that is pursuing "The Gay Agenda". Your best bet is to migrate to another country.

"fired from a job for being gay, with no avenue for redress?"

Quite unfortunate, but that is the majority sentiment in Singapore. It is not that your employer is discriminating against you, but the Singapore society is, i.e. your worth to your employer diminishes if you come out openly as being gay. There is no law or policy that government can make to improve this. The only solution is through education.

"Will any SDP elected member (or NCMP) speak up for the repeal of S377a in Parliament, or the amendment or introduction of any new legislation to ensure that equality"

Again, that would be political suicide.

I feel that Dr Chee should not have even used the loaded term "gay agenda". As Robox pointed out, this is a smear term used to scare moral conservatives. Why debate on the basis of their biased vocabulary?

Instead Dr Chee should have reframed the issue as one of basic human rights and equality and stated that there is nothing wrong with supporting human rights, which is what the SDP has been doing all this while.

The impression I got is that the SDP will continue to speak up for all Singaporeans, including the marginalized ones, but under the banner of equality, rather than gay agenda. It's basically a reframing of the issue without abandoning their values. I thought it was quite clever actually. It is possible to argue against 377A based on the notion of equality.

I just read a one Ms Lisa Li Shi-En's letter to Today Online where she mentioned that SDP did indeed make a very clear stand on the repeal of S377A. I did a search, and yes, SDP did issue its Party's stand in 2007 calling for a repeal of S377A. So why is Dr Chee now doing a somersault? Why cann't Dr Chee be "straight" with SDP's Agenda. Why do you have to do this flip now just because PINKY Lee's boys are issuing you a challenge? Why do you have to wince and mince your words now?

By doing a somersault now you're sending wrong signals to your supporters. Are you just an opportunist like the MIW??

SDP has its own branding and the people are attracted to it for what it had always stood for and fought for.

I agree with Robox, you are giving wrong signals to us Singaporeans. You had attracted a huge following with your robust challenge to the PAPY's with your calls for equal rights, civil dis-obedience moves & sacrifices. Now you are going on a reverse mode just to save guard your position. What happened to the soul of the party?

Elections are just only one tool to advocate your beliefs and agenda. It is not "the way" to win followers to your cause. Why do you have to sell your soul to just win votes which will be empty votes and which you will eventually lose sooner or later if you lack commitment to your actual cause.

Vincent, if you are gay say it to all Singaporeans. There's nothing wrong in it. If you are planning to push for the repeal of S377A as stated clearly by SDP Agenda to a later date and not now then say it. We will understand.

SDP, be honest and open. Don't mislead and do somersaults. Don't lose your moral compass.

MM Lee starts to talk about this coming GE...why? Worry that his son cannot make it in the GE2011 after implementing all those policies that squeezed Singaporeans to their last drop of blood and making this RED LITTLE DOT so congested since the last GE!

SDP's dissociating itself from the "gay agenda" at this juncture may be "streetwise" on account of votes, as those educated about the issue are probably still a tiny minority.

Even a trained medical specialist in progressive Singapore (that styles herself as medical hub for the region, indeed the world), talent-scouted by the abolute PAP and ultimately LKY, does not belong to this enlightened, liberated minority.

We have not only this slur against Vijey, but also LKY's "hard talk" to warrant our suspicion of Vivian's "homophobia". Acknowledging evidence of genes being basically the determining factor in sexual orientation, LKY mentions specifically Vivian's disagreeing.

All this would seem to suggest that it might backfire on SDP, if not short, then long term, to align itself so clearly and forcefully with the ignorant majority.

It is so sad that I read the strait times this morning. A lot of hype on Wijeysingha's attendance to gay forum etc.

Now, if you read the news again, this time, replacing all appearance of the word "gay" in the entire news with other minority groups such as "handicaps", "lower-income earners" etc, would the forum in the news sounds more noble?

If so, YOU are the one that is discriminating. Singaporean, regardless of gay, Handicaps, homeless, jobless or people from any minor religious or social groups, are still Singaporeans. Even if they are not Singaporean, are they not human beings? It is comforting to know that SDP reaches out to these minority groups without a slight bit of discrimination. PAP, on that other hand, shun them. Any contacts with them becomes some materials to be used for smear campaign. It is so very sad for Singapore. Have our country leaders befallen to such a level?

I hope Singaporean really read this news and see how discriminating PAP is. The jokes on them, really.

It's dismaying to see everyone fall into the trap of associating the repeal of 377A with the meaningless term 'gay agenda'. Guys, be a little smarter than that!

As I said above, I think it's a smart approach to throw 'gay agenda' back to the opponents. Arguing for the repeal of 377A can easily be done on the grounds of non discrimination and equality, which was highlighted by Dr Chee in this video. So basically, he has not committed the SDP to not doing anything.

Maybe you should ask all the straight people in the country who support the repeal, whether they are pursuing a gay agenda? Or whether they believe first and foremost in equal rights?

I agree with foxtrot. It's pretty clear from the video that SDP stands for equal rights when he said “At the very core of our country and our national pledge, is the creed that we do not discriminate against anyone, be it on the basis of the colour of their skin, the faith in their hearts, whether they are young or old, or what their sexual orientation is.” They can still support the repeal of 377a on the basis of equality.

Thanks, foxtrot. What other connotations has the term "gay agenda" which I don't know of?

I thought it is only a common, convenient term denoting a social movement, like the terms "civil rights", "femininism", etc.

Is there anything untoward that "agenda" also includes, besides just gays asserting their moral rights?

The writing is on the wall.Stick to the game plan of the issues at hand and Holland will fall.

1.Accountability of YOG

2.Losses of Holland GRCs sinking funds in toxic investments.

3.Lifting the poor & elderly especially in medical and cost of living

4.Affordable housing

Gay is a non issue as there are a ex minister plus senior govt. officials who are gays.

This sentiment expressed by poster Gail on TOC ib response to this video respnse by DR Chee probably exemplifies the attitudes of self respecting LGBTs:

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/04/sdp-responds-to-vivian-balakrishnan/

[Quote]

This is a real disappointment for people like us. At the critical juncture, SDP does an about-turn. It is an outrage, a open betrayal of the gay community!

Even if Vincent W becomes the first gay MP, it is only because he pretended to be straight.

[Endquote]

Like Gail, I give SDP a big fat ZERO for gay self respect.

Maybe Mr(Dr) Vivian can answer honestly about his own mistakes and stand on issues which matter to the voters, instead of pointing fingers at other's sexual behaviour. A real man dare to admit one's own kistake and ask the voters to decide whether they still need one's service. A servant who focus on other servant-to-be behaviour is an unbecoming behaviour itself.

Servant is to serve the masters(citizens) , faithful servant is not called to tell tales about others, for we know what other servants are like.

Again, Mr(Dr) Vivian Balakrishna, kindly come out clean with your recods of mistakes and we decide whether to continue or to terminate your service.

Please pay special attention to this because this is about how the PAP can break laws and get away with it because they have made the supposedly-neutral civil service beholden to them. But I am more interested to see if the SDP will also pursue this.

http://siewkumhong.blogspot.com/2011/04/disgust-and-loathing-in-singapore.html

“At this point, I hope that those responsible for posting the video and the misleading description about “lowering age of consent for sex with boys aged 14″ are aware that they may have contravened Section 61(d) of the Parliamentary Elections Act. And I certainly hope that the Elections Department will be fair and investigate this case, and prosecute if the culprit is found.]” – Siew Kum Hong

Dr Balakrishnan added that the video “promotes gay causes” and that this “raises the question on whether Dr Wijeysingha will now pursue this cause in the political arena and what is the SDP’s position on the matter”.

It is clear cut he is diving the people and not obeying his own PAP manifesto of building the nation together. This is another valid reason why all voters must vote in opposition party/Singapore Democratic Party in order that we as Singaporeans can continue to build up together one Singaporean First.

I still remember SDP vision :Its vision is that “as a nation, we must not only show tolerance but also acceptance of our fellow citizens regardless of their race, religion, sexual orientation, or political persuasion”. Even though i am not SDP member but this is about being humane with our humanity among all human beings, including you.

I hope all candidates in this election also keep this vision in hearts to bring it to pass in our nation.

Guys, I empathize with the roller coaster feelings all of you must be going through. As Christians, the most important fruit of the spirit is Love. While it is normal to feel absolutely disgusted by Dr. Balakrishnan, focus on the plan to help Singaporean realize that this is just a distraction and diversion.
I'll be supporting both of you and your team will be in my prayers. "With God, all things are possible".

This is what I posted on straitstimes.com when the news broke last night.

More Good Years 12 hours ago

First of all, I think it is really a sad day for GE 2011 that such a diversion from the issues facing the electorate this election. As an evangelical Christian, my views on homosexuality are based on the principles found in the Bible. To be succinct, the Bible is against homosexuality but not against homosexual men and women believing that change is possible through repentance and forgiveness that comes from Jesus Christ. The act of homosexuality was recorded in the Bible from the very first book of the Old Testament, Genesis. In fact, Jesus Christ mentioned against casting the first stone and looking at the "log in your own eyes instead of the speck in your brother's eye".

I've watched the video that was posted on You Tube where Vincent Wijeysingha was in, the speaker, M Ravi did refer to liberal countries where consent starts from a very young age which I cannot accept. Having said that, I did not see Mr Wijeysingha agreeing with the speaker and he has not campaigned on gay rights.

I'd like to appeal to Dr. Balakrishnan and his team in Holland Bukit Timah to focus on the issues that affect all Singaporeans in this GE and to refrain from such attacks.

Given that homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, we cannot eliminate the behavior and, as a society, we have to agree on how much space and rights we accord to the community.

I believe the problem lies with what the general population's interpretation of "gay agenda" to mean. Many I believe would equate it to representing SOLELY for the gay community which would be inconsistent with SDP's manifesto to represent ALL. Therefore Dr Chee is only being consistent when he said that SDP is not there to pursue "gay agenda" but rather towards equality for ALL (including any type of minority).. which I believe would naturally include a stand for the repealing of 377A if brought out in Parliament.

Anyway, it appears that someone by the nick of RMOA99 has issued a warning to Vivian at Sam's Alfresco.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?90187-A-First-and-Final-Warning-to-Vivian-Balakrishnan

However, I am saddened by the appearance of such gutter politics from one of our Ministers and his PAP teammates, Mr Christopher De Souza, Mr Liang Eng Hwa and Ms Sim Ann, who signed off on this misleading statement. Instead of showing us why they are better leaders for Singapore or engaging the Opposition on policy differences, they have resorted to a smear campaign based on a Youtube video posted by an anonymous netizen.

They don't look promising team to help the citizens , not anymore.

Tan Tai Wei, "Gay agenda" is regarded as a pejorative term by some LGBT organisations, and rightly so, because it's a term often used by social conservatives to imply that the gay community have "sinister motives", like turning straight people into gays, in a blatant attempt to discredit them. I believe this is why the SDP has to say that they don't have a gay agenda while at the same time stating that they do not discriminate based on sexual orientation. I see no reason to believe they're compromising on their principles or that they won't speak up against all forms of discrimination.

To continue to attack SDP now would be to play into Dr Vivian's hands. Don't let the PAP win.

The statement by Vivian's GRC team purports to clarify what Vivian had really meant by that "slur". It claims that it wasn't intended to attack his sexual orientation, this being "a matter personal to him". It was only to ask SDP and Vijey to make known their "agenda" for voters to know and consider.

O, intentions so pure, so innocent!

Come, come; then why the innuendos, the subtlety, the slanting of eyelid, the "O, don't you know?" mode of what Chee describes as Vivian's "beating about the bush", rather than being upfront about the matter?

Vivian and team would preserve better PAP's purported reputation for "transparency and honesty" had they simply admit the mistake, and apologize.

Many thanks, Ningxin. Then, SDP should make all that clear, and perhaps go on to repeat that it would support the gay community's moral and legal rights, just like it will, also, any other persecuted minority's.

The Party's stand on S377A made by its Chairman Gandhi Ambalam in October 2007 is very clear.

You had then said: "We stand by our words and say unambiguously that Section 377A discriminates against a segment of our population and that discrimination, in whatever form, has no place in society.

We therefore call on the PAP Government to repeal the law".

So is SDP deviating from its original Party Principles now for its political gains?

How are we now going to trust you with all your other populist promises?

You have lost your moral compass!

guys relax,what U Turn talking about?this is sing politics where there are so many illegal U TURNS seen but not booked!hints-GST,Means testing.....Right move Dr chee,what u are doing is "morally accepted " in singapore politics.don't worry,focus on the main issue,throw the open debate challenge.Guys on moral ground,Go to some part of circuit road,henderson,chinatown...and look at the folks there.is food for our fellow mankind more humane than talking about a drowning man's clutching to a video clip?!why is 1 + 0=3?Is this what He is trying to suppress by avoiding a open debate.?

Dr Chee is pursuing the Singaporean Agenda. It is an All-Inclusive Agenda by definition.

Don't get distracted, when they throw smoke, move away and concentrate on the real issue, ie

1.Accountability of YOG

2.Losses of Holland GRCs sinking funds in toxic investments.

3.Lifting the poor & elderly especially in medical and cost of living

4.Affordable housing

One must realise that our environment and expectation has changed dramatically over the last 60 years in Singapore. Its good to know that the first time voters have a wider choice to make and they will make theirs under current circumstance.

Gay issue is within grey area and even angels dare not trend into it. I prefer to get back to down to earth matters such as who stole/moved my cheese from my refrigerator last five years? Can the new government (if opposition parties gain 71/87 seats this election) ensure that the essential food and water and petrol prices do not go any higher within the next 5 years from 2011? If they can , then I can vote in opposition party with peace of mind, for my children's future sake.

@dannyk

SDP somersaulted on what?

They have the same principles and objectives as before. Asking for a repeal of S377A was in line with the ideals they have always upheld.

They have NOT deviated from anything. What? You fancy yourself as some kind of expert on SDP's ideology? Since when?

Please! You don't have to trust SDP if you don't want to. Go sucker up to your play-cheat, play-dirty, loser minister VB!

And who are you to teach anyone about "moral compass"? Moral compass indeed! You are not God, so don’t talk about morals. This just reminds me of our self-righteous, failure minister WKS pontificating that the PAP has the moral authority to govern Singapore! LOL!

Hey, "More Good Years", our years would be better if the likes of you would notice factors such as these that need research, before
you can be so sure that "the Bible prohibits homosexuality".


In the book of Deuteronomy in the OLd Testament, the prohibition of seemingly what we define as homosexuality is really part of the law of holiness for the "people of Jahweh, the Lord of army" to observe. The dominance of one man of another was prohibited for the "people of the Most High", as the penetration of one by another in the "homosexual act" would be. It wasn't prohibited when "the Lord of Host(army) led them to invade others, for that penetration was regarded as rightful dominance of the conquered!

And in the New Testament, when St Paul forbade unnatural sex among persons of the same sex, he was doing so in the social context where it was accepted norm that boy apprentice-learners subjected themselves even sexually to their mentors, and Paul's complain probably was that many master-teachers abused that relationship and kept their apprentices in that servitude longer than necessary.

Don't forget that the same Paul said, at the end of his letter to the Roman Christians, where earlier he had prohibited those unnatural sexual acts, that Christians ought to subject themselves to the authorities, which he thought was God-appointed, and the authorities included that master-apprentice relation mentioned above!

The upshot of all this is that Christians just cannot quote the Bible to say it prohibits what we know as "homosaxuality". They cannot be lazy, but would have to think anew as to the rights and wrongs about it, in the light of God-endorsed morals and the facts the human and natural sciences provide us to date.

Mandatory death penalty and S377A agendas are issues that may be raise similarly anti abortion,free education and medical fees in parliament that is Democracy.

Is the Gay Issue a main agenda? definitely not and that is the stand that Dr.Chee made to rebut VivienB.

Likewise,Vincent's presence at a bar lounge public discussion does not prove he is for or against but there to enjoy a beer and listening to the ground,after all he has been away for quite a while and listening to the good,bad and the ugly from all quarters is part of a good potential MPs job.Unlike those in Ivory Towers and Golf courses getting feedbacks from sycophants.

I will throw my support behind dannyk:

Has the SDP lost its moral compass? Does Article 12 of the Constitution mean anything to you except to advance your selfish agenda (in the courts) of preserving your party at the expense of those you purportedly represent? Just what is the purpose of a party's existence if not to represent its political constituencies, one of which is the LGBT community which you seem to have misled thus far?

Please make clear exactly what you mean when you say that NONE of your MPs will support "The Gay Agenda" and tell LGBT Singaporeans exactly why their votes should go to you when 3 PAP MPs and 1 NMP spoke up for us in Parliament in October 2007.

Remember, that thus far, the RP already has a better track record as a party in this regards.

Oh, stop being such a drama queen Robox. You are not the sole representative of the LGBT community, and neither is that Gail person, whoever she is. I don't remember signing any documents giving my permission.

Gay and civil rights activists have always fought to 1) uphold the notion that gays rights are about equal rights and no special rights, and 2) dispel the notion of the nefarious 'gay agenda'. This is well in line with what the video says.

If you wish to withdraw your support for SDP and pledge it to RP (despite having spoken out various times against them in the past), you are well within your rights to do so. Just that you seem to have been too busy complaining about flip-flopping to take the time to look in the mirror.

Looking at it, it's the usual thing happening again, this time round 2011, is "gay" issue to eliminate people... I cannot say much but I know u guys know what I mean... Just be careful SDP, as you really have very good chance with good candidates, u know what's after your back... Dr Chee knows best as Dr Chee had gone thru all these... I'll pray for u SDP, I'll pray for u... that's all I can do for now...

Robox:
Note that you said SDP prostituted itself for votes. I take offence to your choice of word "prostitute".
Are you prejudiced against prostitutes who are also among the working class working hard for a living to put food on the table? Who is going to fight for their rights?

I don’t understand why people are not differentiating between Repeal of S377A and the ‘gay agenda’.

I think we should all calm down and re-examine our own views and prejudices on this subject.

S377A is a criminal law which affects an individual’s human rights and dignity. Whereas ‘gay agenda’ is something else altogether.

Writer ldrsun gave a good explanation of what a ‘gay agenda’ is, as follows:

“There is no ‘gay agenda’. It is only a term used by those who want to incite fear against homosexuals, by insinuating that the gays have a big scary plan to force themselves into power, brainwash children into becoming homosexuals etc.
Thus I hope that Dr Chee will not use the term, not propagate this false notion of a ‘gay agenda’ and spread homophobia.”

Here’s Wikipedia’s entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_agenda

Why is everyone just blindly jumping to the conclusion that Repeal of S377A = ‘gay agenda’?

Just because the SDP affirms that it does not support the ‘gay agenda’, so therefore people take it to mean that it does not support Repeal of S377A and has abandoned gay rights altogether??

That’s just too simplistic!

I thought we are trying to move away from this hard, linear, either-or approach which governs so much of our lives here in Singapore.

Surely we can do better than this?

I have this friendly advise though I'm not a SDP supporter

It may make sense for SDP to re-consider their election strategy or at the minimum, which candidates to field for the Holland-Bukit Timah GRC

Since there are already 2 heavy weights in SDP’s team for the GRC, Dr W can be re-deployed to another GRC or even better, to a SMC to show off his worth.

Don't put all eggs in one basket.

Typical training for a rookie
It is a open secret, by now everyone would had figure it out the speaker was Mr Ravi the Human Right Activist against death penatly. Boy he sure look very young indeed.

Understanding Politics 101
Made in Europe Politics
Gutter Politics - throwing muds & smear campaign on distasteful attack on personal character
Taking on the Moral High Ground, being High Mindedness, preaching Noble and Mighty Clean
Trolling for trash for political gain, who slept with a prostitute, sex scandal, 2nd mistress, sodomy trial

Understanding Politics 201
Made in United States Politics
Swift-Boating Politics - for example to question a person Patriotism towards her/his country
A strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair or untrue—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign

The last General Election, for 7 days the newspapers debate how did James Gomzes submit his application form. Later was known as "Bar-Chor-Mee saga" and the "CCVT Camera joke" by Mr Brown Show
Will this time round, the General Election be about a debate he is a faggot??? who is afraid of a fag??? do you hate fags??? SM Goh said let have a clean election. Well, knock it off guys, this election is not about this one person call Vincent, there are 82 people

There's some pappy here that are trying to dig shit to create smoke...well, it would in fact win more votes for SDP from the gay community. Go SDP, Go Dr W!

Conduct + Character = Leadership

Dr Vivian remember those lines to Dr Lily Neo of MCYS
She said in the house, please give better foods to the needy old folks that are poor

Let qoute what Dr Vivan said How much to you want???
Do you want 3 meals in hawker centres, food courts or resturants???

Remember what you said about Disable people??? dependence on the State. Errrh did I got it right???

Maybe Dr Vivan is a thrifty person, he wants to help to save money for the country.

Few months later, he did not object to the 20% increase in his salary???

A kind hearted person, A compassionate person, A person who is willing to give others a helping hand.
Question: when you are down on luck, you run out of money, who will cares for you???
If Vincent help the poor, he is Robin Hood with a kind heart, that is what is really counts, Gay or no Gay, that is not the question when we are hungry

Swift-Boating politics is played all over the world.
When they question about Mr Vincent is a gay or not???
When they question about Mr Chen Show Mao a patriot???
Did Mr Chen stay in Singapore long enough???

Where did Obama educated, Indonesia??? Is Obama a muslim??? Why didn't Obama play golf on sunday instead of being where he should be at the church. He real name is Obama Hussien Barrack, is he a Muslim???
Obama should proved his is born in United States, where is his birth cert??? What church did Obama goes to??? What did his Pastor Rev Wright said about the Rooster had come home to roost???

Part of the beautiful game. You lose your COOL, you lose your Head, you lose your COMPOSURE, you LOSE
What is people so disturb by it??? Just politics

It is alarming for Singapore that a Minister can avoid giving a detailed account of over-expenditure (of Olympic proportions) by a ministry under his stewardship.

Even clerical officers and underlings in the Civil Service stand to be surcharged for losses and over-expenditure due to inadvertent lapses.

In the case of the YOG, it was no inadvertent lapse. It was public expenditure gone "cock-a-hoop".

For the PAP government to remain credible, Vivian Balakrishnan must account in detail and dispel the perception of double standards. Trying amateurishly to deflect the attention is blatantly conspicuous and just will not do.

To lose a Minister would constitute a dent to the PAP; to lose a Nation's confidence would be irreparable doom.

to ROBOX:
the wayang just started & u offensive words such "prostitute" is not in place...u speak on "behalf" of the 'gay community'& u think such is "justice" for SDP, SINGAPORE PEOPLE OR EVEN DR W>? i do not understand why should u guys fall into such a trap from the MIW, imagine this is not EVEN ELECTION DEBATE TIME YET! & more wayang on the stage show to come? As the MIW is reading this blog, certainly they are laughing their ways to votes (gain)& if ROBOX u insists to speak and behave in such manner of conduct, & u r speaking on behalf of this community, is such a pity this issue if any have to raise contentious of conducts, speeches and manner, see e greater picture & there are more important things to be done FIRST! even Dr.W will agree, do not cut the very leg of the chair that u sitting, it shall fall hard & one word of advise, whoever u are, u are certainly NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE MANY GAY FRIENDS THAT I HAVE!

Until this episode occurred, we (wife + me + many friends staying in holland grc) were pleasantly surprised by the rapid turn of events for the SDP and was v glad that able & principled people such Mr Tan JS, Dr Ang, Ms Teo SL, etc stood forward alongside with Dr Chee.

I tot that Dr Chee's very long struggle is finally rewarded.

I have heard Dr Chee on his position on the video, but this is not enough for me and for the many I know, to make an informed decision to cast our votes.

The video directly involves Dr Wijeysingha, Dr W should make his personal position clear.

The opposition, as does the majority of the Singaporeans expects accountability. We must simply live up to the standards that we demand of others.

If accountability is lacking now, how much more will it be lacking later? Keeping quiet is not being accountable.

@quantum and @jbeji:

If you are offended by the word "prostitute" used as a verb, then you are both just as stupid and despicable as the PAP that dragged Gopalan Nair to court on that basis. You are both just as stupid as the PAP that took Abdul Malik to task for his use of the word "burn"

@jbeji:

What are these 'more important issues" that you refer to? Straight issues like jobs and job security? What use are those to me when, even if I get a job, I can still be fired from it by Christians like the many Christians in the SDP?

If that is the case, you are just as selfish as the PAP and the elites it has nurtured that are always about THEIR self interest over those of others, because, like the SDP, you have prioritized straight issues over gay ones.

You are right that I don't represent the LGBT community, but where did I say that I did? I definitely DON'T represent unselfrespecting gays who are most comfortable hiding in their closets. I know very well that there are many LGBTs who are very uncomfortable with my "pushiness". Yet, it is MY "pushiness" that has placed gay rights issues on the radar screen, because I know what you heteros are like: I know that selfish heteros WILL NOT wake up one fine morning abd go, "Oh, my God. We have been so mean to the gays. We should make things right for them from now on."

In that way, you selfish heteros are no different from the PAP: it's the power dynamic between dominant groups and marginalized ones, the same marginalized groups that the SDP has duped the public into believing they support.

Dr Chee,pls keep your cool and not falls into Bala hands.By able to attract high profile and capable candidates to stand against the pap,SDP are already half way to parliament.So lets continue marching forward and ultimately into parliament so as to carry our citizens voices right into pap ears,don't get distracted by bala coz he himself got a whole lot to answer with regards to the over the mountain spending on YOG.Always keep cool and maintain high alert around your surrounding and when the times come,strike it hard and swift and unforgiving,"Thats what secret commando does best".i will be casting my vote to SDP in bukit panjang SMC,all the way SDP Dr Chee!!!

"What use are those to me when, even if I get a job, I can still be fired from it by Christians like the many Christians in the SDP?"

I doubt you are telling the truth. Yes, you can get fired but only if you push to get fired. Social conservatism against homosexuality in Singapore is pretty big, but to say that employers seek out individuals that are gay and fires them is a lie. When I apply for a job, my employer does not ask me if I'm gay or not. They don't really care at all. Since when in any job application are you required to disclose your sexual orientation? Show me a job advertisement that says "Gays need not apply". Watch the Southpark episode "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_Camp_of_Tolerance" and you will understand what I mean.

"like the SDP, you have prioritized straight issues over gay ones."

Why this dichotomy? There's no such thing as "straight" versus "gay". There are only individuals. Don't partition people into artificial groups of your choosing.

"unselfrespecting gays who are most comfortable hiding in their closets"

You just made a judgment on people who choose not to make their sexual orientation an issue. Why are they unselfrespecting? Perhaps it is you that is pushing it too far?

"MY "pushiness" that has placed gay rights issues on the radar screen,"

Again the fallacy of "gay rights". There's no such thing, only individual rights exist.

"Oh, my God. We have been so mean to the gays. We should make things right for them from now on."

Who has been mean to gays? People that have been so mean to you does not mean they have been mean to gays. You alone don't represent gays. However you are right that Singaporeans in general find homosexuality to be extremely deviant, they don't comprehend nor understand why. Religious people go one step further and claim that it is immoral behavior. I certainly don't think it is immoral, but it is certainly deviant. However, with education and exposure, perhaps people will come to accept it.

"SDP has duped the public into believing they support"

SDP wants votes, they know they can do that only by taking politically positive positions. It would be political suicide for them to engage in the debate, but that will take time, when Singapore's society is more progressive. The time is not now.

Definition of PROSTITUTE

transitive verb
1
: to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money

2
: to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes: e.g. prostitute one's talents

Note that the 2nd definition of the verb "prostitute" has nothing to do with the 1st definition of "prostitute"

Does it pay to be Confrontation??? PAP gave Mr Vincent some tough medicine (why??? He is has the personality, he has the star power to pull the crowd in when he speak people stand up and take notice)
Being soft spoken and quiet, the PAP being the "Real Tough Guy" was seen as the Big Bully in the field. For keeping his head cool, SPD 1 versus PAP 0

They try to used the "Outrage Factor" suggesting that Mr Vincent was secretly promoting. Well, the public had call it bluff and nobody buy it. (Nice effort, good try) And the people rally behind Mr Vincent, rather than someone who is not friendly to people who are born different from others. The Generation Y came out more Liberal on such issue, since they are Net-Savvy such topics are nothing new. Now, the "Gay Community" will support & vote for Mr Vincent
SDP 2 versus PAP 0

Making used of the "Outrage Factor" inorder for the people to rally behind you, it got to genuine. Otherwise it will backfire very badly. Humans has the ability to remove those tearjerker drama from what is genuine and what is fabricated. Once the emotion subsides, they will start to question the soundbites

(You sued us, we sued you back)
Defamation Case is like a knife its cut both ways. If I am not wrong and recall correctly, being a regular followers of Parliment Sitting, Some years back Mr Chiam had been compensated by 2 PAP MP for saying the wrong thangs. If you are a bright person, who knows how to neturalize threats, and contained the dangers. Like Mr Chiam he had found a way to play fast counter-attack. And Gays topics is very sensitive issue. (After election there will be court case, if you play smart, you be compensated)

(The X-Factor who got the "Like-ability")
Personally I think Chen Show Mao has the making to be the next Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore. Mr Chen could communicate to the Chinese Journalists in a way no candidates could. He has a way of charm those English Journalist with his intellgent answers like "Tun Dr M with jokes and answers" making fun of his competitors.(Don't be mistaken, Trump is Ron Paul, they both had movies star status unlike Mr Obama is the real thangs)
Your guess is as good as mine. Nicole Seah "Likeability" has rocket skyhigh 20 times more than Ms Ting. This is 20,000 versus 2,000

What do you do with people like SDP Mr Vincent, WP Mr Chen, SPP Mr Pwee, NSP Govt. scholars that had rock stars status like Bill Clinton Mr Charm, Obama Mr Cool??? You look at their weakest link, WP Mr Low said we want to teach PAP a good lesson. Ah, here is the weakest link, Mr Low sound like he is on a personal revenge, an extremtist individual with deep hatred. Voters will distance themselves from such talks.

Those who think General Election is not a personality, well you dead wrong. Voters are people that look for passion, trustworthy, hardworking, friendly, compassionate, kind hearted people...what they see in themselves, their future are at good hands
Tang Liang Hong was not careful, as a result he was label as chinese chauvinistic, Voters are afraid of extremtist individuals

If PAP do lose some seats in this election, they really need to capture some Prize Candidates the next time round. Those Army Generals and NTUC Unionist no longer works. X-Factors, people like Vincent, Mr Chen, Nicole, Syliva (my 2 cents views)