Singapore Democrats

Yaacob Ibrahim can continue smiling as long as he still enjoys the million dollar pay package. He has the cheek to say he is ashamed of the community's social condition.

In the first place, he should be ashamed that PAP Malay "leaders" are continously, ever since I heard the word PAP, being perceived as DOGS to the Chinese emperor!

This issue on the social ills of the Malays have been there for so long and it is only now that they want to bring this up.

Now that more and more people are "camping" beside the beach, he wants to come out and talk about it. But Chinese emperor is talking about the "rising market price" of HDB flats.

Contradictions!

They set up the Community Leadership Forum (CLF) in the hope of spreading the load to handle the Malay community's problems. But what is the point if there is no sincerity and not addressing the root cause?

The root cause of the problem is the "extremely" high cost of living, the "extremely" high price of HDB flats, low wages, low disposable income and racial discrimination.

By the way, these issues not only affect pakcik and makcik but also auntie, uncle, aneh, achi, muthu, lucy and mary. But PAP continues it's hegemony through "divide and rule" policy. It is not in their interest to make it a national issue in which all regardless of race come together to solve these issues.

If we are sick, we cure the illness and not the symptom. Sadly, this doctor only knows how to tackle the symptom.

What a shame...

Malulah Singapura!

And the same goes for the local Indian community and its so-called leaders and organisations.

Thank you Mr. Jufrie for telling it like it is.

Once again.....what a great insightful politician you are, Jufrie, Keep up the good work.
I have no doubt you will one day be a leader of the new democratic Govt of S'pore and likely to lead the malay community.
Regards and HNY to you and family!

Actually there are many broken homes in the Chinese community too.
Ref : http://news.omy.sg/News/Local%2BNews/Story/OMYStory200911101445-104418.html
(Man strangled both children to death, burnt the house and jumped to death)

Jufrie takes pleasure in painting his political opponents as ignorant and off-touch with society, especially in this case, the malay-muslim community.

Well, the minister concerned did in fact address some of those issues that Jufrie mentioned. I'll refrain from pasting the entire (boring) political speech here, but we'll let the words he uttered at the Istana on 22 Oct make up for Jufrie's ignorance (deliberate or otherwise) about what his opponent is aware of or concerned about:

“But in moments of reflection, it is the future that worries me. What if the Malay middle class decide that our responsibility is only to ourselves and abandons the rest of the community? We would have lost a golden opportunity here to move our community forward. What if the cases of families with multiple issues grow over another generation and we see the emergence of a hardened underclass in our community?”

“ These are not easy questions. But they stem from our worry that following our personal success, we take our eyes off and fail in the commitment to the community. We can potentially have a class divide in our community if those at top are not willing to reach out to those at the bottom.”

“Since 2003, we have had the Community Leaders Forum, a platform for collective action in dealing with some of the seemingly difficult challenges such as teenage pregnancies and dysfunctional families. When we pool our minds and efforts there is so much more we can achieve without having to give up our own identity and projects – and I am happy that our leaderships at our Malay/Muslim organizations - Jamiyah, 4PM, AMP, PPIS and many others – saw this and rallied together as members of the Community Leaders Forum. We created the Educational Trust Fund (ETF) in 2003 which since then has been helping low income families with their children’s educational expenses from kindergarten all the way to Secondary 5.”

“So when my colleagues and I visited the Muslim inmates at Changi Prison during Ramadan and prayed for their well-being, our message to them was that they too have a positive role to play – for once they are out they too can contribute by leading a life of integrity and responsibility and even sharing their experiences so that others will not fall into the same trap. Let us also not ignore the many Malay/Muslim workers who have worked tirelessly to put food at the table for their families while holding two jobs and going for training.”

I remember a while back that Jufrie had his Amin and Fatimah in an article. Well, the minister had his Sariati Mohamed Sharif and Sharifah Nur Azizah in his speech.

I wish he started his dialogue with "The ROOT of the problem in the Malay community is _______ (and then continues with) “But in moments of reflection, it is the future that worries me.......”"

Jufrie Mahmood if he wishes to be elected to the Singapore parliament must not be trapped in his Malay / Muslim cocoon set by the PAP.

His speech could have been more meaningful if he had included the Chinese and Indians since these communities too are facing the same troubles.

Jufrie has put our extravagently expensive leaders to shame. They are each paid so many millions a year and yet none of them have even a fraction of his insight. So much money down the drain for fake talents!

But pray tell, Mr Juffrie, what do YOU think are the solutions? Some of your points are valid but it is all very well for you or anyone to go on ranting (anyone can do that) but if you want to show you are better then please impress us with solutions, not just venting.

:)

At this rate, Singapore will soon have more foreigners than Singaporeans. Singapore will belong to the foreigners one day and Singaporeans will be squeezed out. Those who are in power could not care less as long as they get to pocket their million dollars pay checks.

Re: "I remember a while back that Jufrie had his Amin and Fatimah in an article. Well, the minister had his Sariati Mohamed Sharif and Sharifah Nur Azizah in his speech."

Yes, and I also remember that Mr Jufrie Mahmood was accused of creating Amin and Fatimah as fictitious characters whose issues were a figment of Mr Jufrie's imagination. By the same writer.

Can the writer of the above statement now clarify if Yacoob Ibrahim has similarly created Sariati Mohamed Sharif and Sharifah Nur Azizah as fictitious characters whose issues were a figment of his imagination?

Or is Yacoob Ibrahim what the PAP would deem to be a 'good Malay' who is more credible because 'he has transcended the essential badness that is Islam, and has become more acceptable to the goals of Chinese cultural dominance'?

claude said:

Re: "Jufrie Mahmood if he wishes to be elected to the Singapore parliament must not be trapped in his Malay / Muslim cocoon set by the PAP."

I hope Mr Jufrie Mahmood takes this statement in good faith.

I know, because I too am frequently ghettoized into specific issues that I fight strongly for, and as if I have no opinion on other matters that are not specific to those issues but are of interest to the larger population.

But as minorities, we straddle a difficult line: how do we address what are essentially specialist issues (and that only a few in any society have the skills for simply for the reason that they are SPECIALIST issues) and yet not be consulted only on those issues?

We have a heavier burden, but somehow are treated as if our load is exactly the same as all others; how much we are paid in such positions reflect the low value our work is regarded with.

This article has resulted in spinoff TR - congratulations Mr Jufrie.

http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/12/15/sdps-jufrie-mahmood-slams-dr-yaacob-for-not-doing-more-to-help-malay-community/comment-page-1/#comment-48426

But I would like to highlight selected portions of one post in particular following that article. (My slightly edited reply to that poster there follows.)

[QUOTE]

“…the sermons delivered in the mosque is controlled by ISD and MUIS. what in the world do intelligence officers know about theology or religion?”

[ENDQUOTE]

MY REPLY:

[QUOTE]

I have been looking for every evidence of the PAP government’s violation of secularism even though Hsien Loong affirmed that the government ought to be secular in his ND Rally speech; this is not untypical of the PAP’s usual duplicitious manner. And your quote above is evidence of the PAP's violation of the principle of secularism:

The core prohibition under the principle of secularism, is the prohibition on GOVERNMENTS from interpreting religious doctrine. Thus, if the ISD – though not MUIS – are present in mosques to vet the content of sermons, this would mean that they have the power to disallow content for reasons they see fit; they assume the power to interpre religious doctrine which they are not empowered to do even if the people doing the interpreting are Muslims or even if they are highly qualified to do so (eg. if they were previously a religious teacher etc.).

People in secular states do not elect governments to interpret religious doctrine for them.

There are suspicions that many other religious groups, maybe even all of them, have been similarly infiltrated by the ISD.

[ENDQUOTE]

I will now address the poster's concerns regarding what he called “radical secularism”. In the first person.

1. Re: “…these fellas are also the opposite of Taliban. unlike the Taliban who force people into religion, MUIS, MENDAKI, WAREES, ETC like to force people out of religion.”

And if they do as you say they do, they have again interpreted religious doctrine, a violation of the principle of secularism; they are not supposed to either force people out of a religion or into it because that would be an indication that they have either interpreted the doctrine of that religion as either right or wrong.

Having said that, it also becomes the responsibility of a mature, secular society to recognize the responsibilities of a society governed under the principle of secularism: it becomes our responsibility to prove that the forcing out and into religion – or at least the coercion out of and into – has occurred, and that it was a result of documented government action.

The good news for the Muslim community is that if either of the above has indeed happened, then you have the Ministry of Muslim Affairs’ whose mandate, I believe, is to facilite only in the practise of the religious affairs of the Muslim community as provided for in Article 152 of the Constitution, though as part of a (secular) government, the same Ministry is not allowed to interpret doctrine on behalf of the community whose benefit they work on behalf of.

The interpretion of doctrine is the job solely of religious leaders, and not secular ones.

2. Re: “Tony Tan once announced a decade ago that Singapore will follow Turkish Secular Model.”

As I stated previously, secularism is the sole responsibility of the State, and the government does in fact have the right to find the model of secularism that best suits the society it governs. A secular government can decide on the finer aspects of what secularism means.

But, democracy on the other hand, does aspire to the maximum particiption of every segment of society; in an issue that affects the Muslim community, the maximum number of Muslim Singapreans must be allowed into the deliberations of what model of secularism best suits itself balanced with what other communities want for themselves.

Sometimes additional conditions can be imposed on the community; they might be required to explain how their religious aspirations can at the same time meet national goals.

The only jurisdiction that any secular government has over any religious group in its religious functions is when crime has occurred, or in danger of occurring.

“Crime” in governance is very broadly – but not always exclusively – defined as “harm against others”

3. Re: “Why does a chinese guy decide what the Muslim community be like?”

Because he has overextended his jurisdiction; that’s the true meaning of the cultural fascism which I am alleging that the Chinese espouse.

The Chinese believe that they are from the Middle Kingdom, the the Higher Kingdom being Heaven and the Lower Kingdom being the rest of us.

That means that they know what is best for the rest of us because we apparently are unable to think for ourselves. That is what you encapsulate with your own statement:

Re: “Cant the muslim community imagine for itself?”

4. Re: “…thanks to their Turkish Secular Model, we have seen a rise in Muslim extremism in Singapore.”

Could you elaborate?

What is this Turkish model of secularism that the government has adopted, bearing in mind that secularism is a responsibility of the government and, in this matter, not the Muslim community though apparently without the Muslim community?

Because of PAP's fascist policy, in particular Lee Kuan Yew's bigotry, marginalisation of the Malays in Singapore is more pronounced and easily discernable. And yet, Minister Yaacob, does not know what to do to solve them.

In this article, Jufrie is exposing the hypocrisy of the PAP minister supposed to be in charge of Malay/Muslim affairs and his sycophants who claim to be community leaders. Why is there a minister in charge of Malay/Muslim affairs in multi-racial, multi-religious, multi-cultural, multi-lingual, et cetera Singapore? Are there ministers in charge of Chinese, Indian, Eurasian affairs in PAP‘s meritocratic Singapore?

What's wrong in Jufrie, a politician who truly believes in Singapore's Constitution raising these issues to let Singaporeans become aware of such problems?

As a politician, Jufrie knows about the neo-liberal, exploitative and dictatorial streaks of the PAP and that is why he is with the SDP, the party that is at the forefront of struggle to change the system to benefit all Singaporeans.

Anna, I agree that there should be discussions about the root of the malay/muslim community's problem, or for that matter, concerning any community or segment of society. Symptomatic treatments or superficial level discussions (or polemics as attempted in Jufrie's articles) are the trademarks of politicians. It is not surprisingly because that is how most of us judge them by - handouts, benefits, tax reductions, etc.

The point in my last comment is that Jufrie is simply engaging in political proclamations about what his opponents are aware of, have been informed of, or have attempted to solve. How do we conclude that there has not been discussion about the root of the problems? At some point, you have to stop discussing and act, and hence the examples (shamelessly) cited by the minister.

Anyway, the minister's speech started with "Let me begin by wishing you Eid Mubarak, Selamat Hari Raya Aidilfitri, Maaf Zahir Batin. A warm welcome to all for this get-together of our community leaders and friends...." I think your suggestion would have been a bit glum and not apt for the occasion :)

In his earlier posting BryanT has quoted quite extensively the speech by Dr. Yaacob.

I would also urge him to read carefully and analyse what I have written before jumping in defence of his political masters.

The crux of my message were the long standing problems of discrimination, and now, the unrelenting influx of "foreign talent" which has already adversely affected the bargaining power of Singaporeans in general and the Malays in particular.

I have never heard the community leaders and the Minister addressing these problems in a meaningful way. All chose to either mention it in passing or totally ignoring it, pretending that they do not exist. There are also other intractable problems that need serious attention.

The Minister said,when referring to the three child murder cases involving the community, as reported by the media "how these tragedies are symptomatic of a deeper sociological problem and spells out the dangers of ignoring this long standing problem of broken homes in the Malay community and that it will lead to (the emergence) of an underclass".

My question is who has been ignoring these problems? Who hasbeen in charge over the last 50 years? Are we going to wait another half a century before we solve this problem of discrimination and move on as a nation, shoulder to shoulder with our brothers in the other communities?

I am fully aware that nation building in always a work in progress. But 50 years is much too long to build trust among us. Soon I will not be surprised if we find many new citizens serving in all branches of the armed forces while the Malays are still put on trial, to prove their loyalty to the nation.Isn't it about time we settle this problem once and for all?

It is also about time we look at this problem as a national problem.

Robox - Part 2

The ideal situation is not for religious leaders or political leaders to interpret any religious doctrine. Today’s problems are largely due to the interpretation of doctrines by priests / Imams (Mullahs) / monks etc. We as individuals have the intelligence, ability and means to find the answers in whatever doctrine we profess only if we put the Right Effort!

I’m not sure if MUIS, MENDAKI forces people out of religion and the Taliban forces people into religion but what I do know is some people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are fed up now with Taliban’s Islam and had taken arms and fighting the Taliban assisting the govt forces. Here in Singapore, the mosques are jam-packed every Friday and on Muslim holy days, so obviously it makes not much difference if the sermons are “controlled”!

I’m in favour the way the govt here is handling religious activities – its not the Best and also not the worst. For those who think otherwise, should visit our neighboring countries or Pakistan on Fridays and listen to the “religious sermons” delivered by the “Imams / Mullahs”.

I don't think the Minister and the leaders have been ignoring the problems. They have been talking about it for ages. None of these are new issues. Maybe there is a segment of underclass that lives by different ideals. We should help them but the question also is also to what extent? If they had bought flats and sold them for money without thinking of where they are going to live next, how much can the state intervene with that mindset?

I am still waiting for your suggestions and brilliant alternatives, Mr Juffrie. If you intend to make this a political issue then you should start having good alternatives. Otherwise you'd just be a ranting blogger (or pakcik) lah. Talk is cheap.

If I am the only one who “misread” Jufrie's article that the first six and last four paragraphs were about a minister whom he accused of being unaware of issues under his charge, and that the so-called community leaders and people in his inner circle have been fearful of telling him the ground facts, then I apologise.

But if I had perchance read the drift of the article correctly, then my ingratiating duty of having to attempt to remove the writer's ignorance, at the risk of being accused of regurgitating statements from my alleged political masters, is hopefully justified. No gratitude expected.

Anyway, it suits me fine that Jufrie now says his article is about discrimination and not about an ineffective and ignorant minister or his compliant lackeys. On this, I'd go as far as to admit that race issues have not been totally eradicated in our society, but wonder what has discrimination has got to do with the murder cases. Or is it the accusation of unawareness (of the community problem) that Jufrie is coming back to (again)?

The FT issue is one that afflicts every Singaporeans and just not a specific race. Jufrie thinks that “the community leaders and the Minister (have not been) addressing these problems in a meaningful way”. I hesitate to have to do him a favour (again) by having to do a search-and-cut-and-paste job, but perhaps Jufrie would be happy to remember that the PM has personally addressed this. I think the said doc may not have addressed this because FT is not under his portfolio.

As a true national politician Jufrie wants to put an end to discrimination, marginalisation and exploitation of the vast majority of Singaporeans, including the Malays by the greedy, corrupt PAP.

Let's get rid of PAP's bogus outfits such as MENDAKI, CDAC, SINDA, AMP, Eurasian association, etc. Let's work towards a Singaporean Singapore.

Actually the million dollar salaries can be taken back by the people from any minister by virtue of a vote.

@BryanT:

So you say politicians always treat the symptoms never the cause. One of their distinguishing trademarks is superficial discussion and a love of polemic. You assert that the electorate measures their worth by size of pork-barrel, not integrity. Those are your published opinions not mine.

Now tell us - LKY, LHL, GCT, Yaacob Ibrahim, etc., etc., etc. - are these people politicians or are they teapots? Logically your remarks made without reservation must apply to all politicians, correct? Are they aware of your contempt for their species?

Just thought I'd point out that you're doing an marvellous job of biting the hand that feeds you Mr. T, do keep it up.

Anyway. Our Malay quangos have the puppet Yaacob to rat on them just as our poor trade unions have their master Lim Swee Suay to sell them into slavery. SPH has its Tony Tan/Yong Pung How to crack the whip. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that there's probably a PAP Pope lurking around the religious rabble lest they mount a Marxist coup. No stone left unturned then for a government as paranoid and fearful of teh faintest whiff of dissent as this one is.

Smile, make sympathetic noises, insist Singapore Malays haven't been marginalised and stonewall till the vote is secured. Point to our one token Malay BG Ishak Ismail and say, "See, see, what discrimination?" Wave hands and buat bodoh when someone murmurs that it took Ishak 28 years to finally get there just in time to retire and George Yeo less than 12 after Uni, LHL 7, ...

"Commenting on Col Ishak’s promotion yesterday, the Minister for the Environment & Water Resources and Minister-in-charge of Muslim Affairs Yaacob Ibrahim said it was a proud moment for the Malay-Muslim community and for all Singaporeans.

He said it showed that hard work AND PLAYING BY THE RULES would bring its rewards in a meritocratic society.

Asked if he hoped more Malays would follow in Ishak’s footsteps, he said it was hoped this would happen, although it would depend on their ability and their interest.

'No Malays should now feel like they can’t do it. If Col Ishak can do it, we can all do it,' he said." - ST, Jun 26 2009.

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it...let's do it...let's...vote SDP?

Are we importing any Malay foreign talents?

In the first place, why are we (the Malays) are being stated as 'underclass'?

There are so many Malays in other parts of the world that are successful but only Singaporean Malays are being seen as 'bodoh' & lazy, despite being educated with Singapore education/certificates. Why??

Well, the root of the problem is because our Malay (PAP) leaders does not truly put up a right stance in defense for Malay community. Hence, the discrimination against us which has resulted in a more oppressed development within the Malay community, depriving us from being successful in our livelihood that has led to our lives being in the category of an underclass.

To speak of it clearly, the act of bias is so obvious that no one dares to talk openly about it.

seebeng - Singaporean Singapoe

I’m all for a Singaporean Singapore but its becoming more a dream with the influx of foreigners and the reality of a Singaporean Singapore is vanishing each day with the current govt policies.

As a Muslim, I have to admit that I have never trusted our MUIS. They are hypocrites of Islam working for PAP not for Muslim sake. The MUIS fear PAP so much that they even gave a green light to make HALAL on our national shit water. (Hateful act)

They prepare booklets of ticket for donation that has prices on it. They allow people to 'sell' Amal(Deed) foods at $10. (Haram to profit in donation in the name of Islam) - Donations should be sincere.

They were bias against some mosques to collect donation in helping for renovations.

They still need 'donations' to upgrade most mosques despite collecting funds of $5 from each working Muslim every month.

They allow restricted teachings about Islam.

They allow the government to control the entry of Muslims into Madrasah. They didn't stand up for the rights of Islam in wearing 'tudung' (scarf) while it is actually a compulsory and basic Muslim requirement for those who are pious. With that, it resulted upon us not used to wearing 'tudung' since childhood, which means they've allowed most Muslim in 'haram' act since our schooldays.

They didn't disagree on HOTA. (Most hateful act!)

Even for Hari Raya, they follow the day in calendar (stated holiday dates) instead of properly 'checking out' on the moon.

Straight to the point, they are doing a lot of 'HARAM' things than some mischievous Muslims. I don't respect them at all. They are not true leaders, they are simply cowards who won't dare to stand up for Muslim.

MUIS = Hypocrisy of Islam.

Dr.Yaacob is Minister in Charge of Muslim Affairs. FT is not under his portfolio. Even if Singaporeans at large, including the Malays get badly hit by this FT influx, he cannot address the matter.

Does it therefore follow that he also cannot address the discrimination problem in the armed forces because he is not the Defence Minister? So it is not his business. By BryanT's logic the Minister also shouldn't be addressing the under achievement problem in education because he is not the Education Minister.

Dr. Vivien Balakrishnan should then be called upon to tackle all family dyfunctional problems. The drug menace is the problem for Minister Wong Kan Seng to tackle, etc, etc.

Dr. Yaacob just has to make sure that we have water to drink and shower,make sure that the Bukit Timah belt where the rich live should not be hit by floods once in every five years and with only the added responsibility to ensure that MUIS does its job properly in disseminating government policies to the Malay Muslims.

No wonder, inspite of having a Minister specifically in charge of their affairs
the Malays still have so many problems half a century after self government and merdeka.

Jufrie - Dr.Yaacob is Minister in Charge of Muslim Affairs

Sure Jufrie, Yaacob is a another Minister making his millions, but don’t you think its time for the Malays to seriously take stock individually or collectively as family units and tackle some of the more serious problems within?

The Malays are capable of progress as proven in education and to some extent in business over the last 20 years. I have no doubt the Malays can develop their full potentials if only they let go the bondage and shackles set by the PAP. And, to expect the minister to do more for the Malays is not going to help the Malays in the long run!

that means this yaacob take gaji buta only, do little things and pay so high

I believe that this will address a pertinent point: that individuals within the community who actually do - or think they do - know better are frequently stonewalled by the same organizations that were mandated for the purpose.

I'm speaking from my experience with that USELESS SINDA, but I post here another portion of the TR post by Malay Solidarity.

In that post, he said:

Re: "...when anyone approach MUIS, MENDAKI, WAREES, MALAY MPS to implement anything to improve the community, the default answers are CANNOT, NO, NOT NOW, IMPOSSIBLE..."

He then goes on to summarize how this happens:

- refuse to tackle the problems and issues in community

- refuse to create opportunities for the community

- cryonism and nepotism

- mismanagement

This was my reply to Malay Solidarity:

[QUOTE]

All of the above must necessarily be kept in place for one reason only: the higher educational, social, economic, financial, and political aspirations CAN BE BEST THWARTED when all of the above points you raised are kept firmly in place.

The PAP does the same things in the Indian community as well.

[ENDQUOTE]

Singaporeans do need to know - and I have first hand experience with this with SINDA - that there is a very deliberate stonewalling when programs are proposed to so-called community organizations.

I hope that a pattern in the PAP establishment's conduct can be discerned even more clearly after my next post.

Jufrie,

ByranT gripe with you is that you mentioned in your write up that "And I am not at all surprised if he is not even aware of some other problems that have already beset the community and their root causes.", whereas he believes that Yaccob is aware of the situation.

The crux of the issue is why Yaccob has no apparent solutions to the problems, after being in this posiition since a long time as you indicated, and a problem which seem to be escalating, in part due to FTs, higher HDB costs, job security. Being the Minister in charge of Muslim affairs, he is probably expected to take care of this community in all areas related to it. Yaccob is not the only Muslim PAP. There are plenty of others (Muslim MPs) in PAP who have also apparently not spoken up on behalf of the community?

If the schools are secular ones, why should there be preferential treatment to wear tadungs in such schools. Would you then suggest that they can then wear clothings that is covering everything except the eyes? Where will the line be drawn and on what basis will this be drawn? by your definition?

What is your gripe with the SAP schools? Any Singaporean who meets the requirements is able to attend these schools, so on what basis is this not fair to the community? On what basis are you basing your judgement that people who attend such schools "may not know how to interact with other communities..."?

"Some of the money should be put aside to build on the 'software', the spiritual foundation and tenacity of the community."

Build the "software" as in what? and what is being reference to as the "tenancity of the community?"

I have by and by been accused by some quarters of being one who subscribes to NATO.

But my record in politics speaks for itself. At the very least I have stood up in defence of democracy.

Now I will briefly talk about solutions that I feel can work to improve the lives of Singaporeans as a whole.

This will necessarily also address the problems afflicting the Malay Muslim community. They may appear simplistic but can be further elaborated and improved. Everyone, BryanT included, can give his or her input should they wish to.

To my mind some of the solutions are:-

1. Revamp the entire electoral system by a)setting up an independent body to run the elections; b)doing away with the GRC and reverting to the single ward system; c)giving ample notice of at least 3 months from the date of the elections; d)doing away with the counting of votes by precinth; e)justifying the redrawing of electoral boundaries if there is a genuine need to and make it transparent; f)ensuring fair news coverage for all contesting parties;g)reducing the election deposit to not more than $5,000 per candidate and last but not least, h)stop alarming the gullible by threatening to call in the army should the governing party looses the elections.

2. Free the media from the shackles of the PAP and encourage free competition by allowing others to print newspapers and set up radio and tv stations.

3. Start building a genuine multi racial nation by abolishing all forms of discrimination based on racial backgrounds so as to enhance the self esteem of the minority races.This will go a long way towards building up confidence within the community and spur them towards finding solutions to their problems.

4. Give independence to communities to organise and manage their own problems as they see best. Ministers should only exercise their governmental responsibiities by providing whatever assistance required and disbursing taxpayers money wherever necessary. The setting up of multi ethnic organisations to look at common problems must be encouraged to facilitate bonding.

5.Abolish laws that restrict freedom of speech and peaceful assembly. Citizens must be encouraged to speakup and air their grievances without fear of being penalised. Issues can then be debated exhaustively and reduce the chances of formulating ill conceived policies.
Stop adopting double standards and separate rules for the ruling and opposition parties.
Government amenities in opposition wards should be made available and accessible to opposition MPs because they don't belong to the PAP. Singaporeans in those wards can then be better served by their MPs and not be deprived of the use of such amenities.

6. Enact new laws to tackle threats to the nation's security following which the ISA must be abolished. This is because it has become abundantly clear that the ISA has been abused to protect the interest of the PAP instead of that of the nation.

7. Encourage the entry of real talent and send home all others who are masquerading as foreign talent. Real talent create jobs while the fake ones suppress wages and take away our jobs.
This has brought about lots of problems for Singaporean families.

8. Implement a minimum wage policy to ensure that citizens who go out to work have a decent income to take home and care for their families.

Also allow citizens to withdraw all their CPF savings upon reaching retirement age and let them have a free hand to do what they like with their money.

9. Allow the Malay Muslim community to utilise the funds available to them to build up their resilience. Religious education should be strongly encouraged and actively promoted from young by making it easily accessible.
Mosques must be made to play a more active role in disseminating the right values. Religious teachers must be appropriately paid with the funds available to enable them to do their jobs well.

Muslims ingrained with the right religious knowledge will have the moral strengh to resist drugs and normally lead a more responsible lifestyle.

10.Committees comprising serious minded and dedicated people from different ethnic backgrounds should be formed and put into action on a full time basis to seriously find workable solutions to problems that are responsible for the emergence of dyfunctional families.
Pretenders who appear only to grace functions must be discarded.

11. Families which have lost their homes must be given a chance to correct their mistakes. They must be helped by tweaking HDB rules and allowing them to rent flats until they can recover and rebuild their lives. With a minimum wage policy in place and hard work there is no reason why they cannot make a come back.

12. HDB flats must be made available to Singaporeans at a reasonable price reflecting their real land and building costs. Monthly repayment of their housing loans must not be more than 15% of their income so that they will have money to live on after retirement. Permanent residents and new citizens should be made to pay a levy before they are allowed to buy HDB flats to ensure that prices do not go out of control.

Locally born and bred Singaporeans should be given priority and allowed to jump Q over the PR wherever necessary.

Exceptions can be made to real foreign talent (rocket scientists, for example) who have genuinely contributed to the nation's growth and wealth and well being.

Foreign sportsmen and sportswomen who dorn Singapore colours masquerading as Singaporeans just for the money are not included. They must be sent home.

13. Ministers' exhorbitant salaries must be drastically reduced to bring their feet closer to the ground. This will make them more sensitive to the problems of lower mortals.

This will also restore pride in the service to the nation.

14. At least 20% of all profits derived from the investments of our billions of dollars of reserves must be set aside to pay for the medical needs of Singaporeans who cannot afford medical care. With this worry out of their heads Singaporeans will become more productive.

At the same time the exhorbitant fees currently charged by specialists in private practice and which can wipe out Singaporeans' medisave must be reviewed, revised and justified. The culture of greed must be checked.

15. Ministers and officials, including those managing our reserves and government link companies must be made accountable for their actions. Transparency must be a norm.

16. There must be a genuine and effective separation of powers among the executive, the lagislature and the judiciary. Laws must not only be effectively implemented but must also not be selective.

The above are some of my suggestions that can make Singapore a better place for Singaporeans, especially the locally born and bred.

There you go...

Here it was simply mentioned as wearing a basic requirement as a Muslim with 'tudongs' and some jerk exaggerating it with Taliban-style coverings except the eyes.

Sigh.... how to finish? Can't even start properly :P

Why are the Sikh still be allowed to wear turbans while riding their motorbike when we already know most of them are having short hairs? (Sorry Mr & Mrs Singh, this is just an example)

Hi Soojenn,

I stand by what I said that Dr. Yaacob is not even aware of "some" of the problems that have already beset the community and their "root causes".

In other words he has no solutions to these problems. When referring to the declining pass rate of Malay students in mathematics at PSLE level, he said: "I go back to the traditional method - give more tuition, give more workbook and so on. Maybe there is something else. I don't know."

Of course there are many other things, not least are the problems faced by their parents who have to struggle to put food on the table after their wages have been suppressed by the presence of "foreign talent", the ever present threat of losing their jobs due to the availability of cheap labour and the ever increasing cost of living.

As for the wearing of the tudung or headscarf, (not clothings that cover everything except the eyes - which I never advocated) I strongly believe that those who wish to do so should not be prevented from exercising their constitutional right, which will also showcase our cultural and religious diversity.

You give the impression that you may not be fully aware of what SAP schools are. They are special schools which promotes the use of only one language which runs counter to the principle of multi-racialism. State resources which could be shared with others are poured into such schools. Students do not get to mingle with those of other races. This will breed the kind of people who may not be sensitive to the needs of the minorities.

What I meant by "software" and "tenacity of the community" are self explanatory and easily understood. They may also take the form of moral and correct religious education which I strongly believe will give the community the strength to resist the influence of drugs and lead the adoption of a positive lifestlye.

Jufrie your suggestions
and defence of democracy is noted with appreciation. However, I strongly suggest that you reconsider 2 of the 16 points highlighted, I have no qualms accepting 14 of your proposals but to “Implement a minimum wage policy” is not practical but seriously one of you other point is similar to an “atomic bomb” which will make all your remaining 14 suggestions “obliterate” its usefulness!

Its time to debunk the myth of Foreign Talent.

Only non locally born & bred will find Mr Jufrie's idea of solutions as useless. :P And of all.. only no.14? I'll be damn!

claude: why is minimum wage not practical?

Hi Claude,

I'm fine with your reservations about minimum wage. We can always agree to disagree.But what's the other point which is similar to an "atomic bomb" which will make all my remaining 14 suggestions obliterate its usefulness?

Can you please clarify? Thanks.

@soojenn

"Would you then suggest that they can then wear clothings that is covering everything except the eyes? Where will the line be drawn and on what basis will this be drawn? by your definition?"

There is a difference between the tudung, and the burqa, which I assume you are referring to. Like you said, the burqa covers everything but the eyes. This conceals the identity of the wearer, which is great for criminals, but not so great for society. The tudung has no such problem, and consequently I don't think a lot of people object to it.

The line is drawn based on public safety.

Are we not having minimum wage for PAP ministers, starting with a couple of million dollars for junior ministers?

Why not extend this to ordinary Singaporeans as well?

Then why are motorcyclists allowed to wear masked helmet and Mercedes allowed to have black windows?

quantum :

I’m no economic expert but minimum wage is theroritically sound however practically its effect is the opposite and does not lead to reducing poverty. Furthermore, many companies in the USA, the European union etc are relocating to countries with cheaper alternatives, the same will take place with the many MNCs in singapore, chances are these companies too will relocate if minimum wages are compulsary here.

Jufrie -

No. 9, is the "atomic bomb"!

Why can’t you leave religion out?

In fact it divides more than it unites!

claude:

You said that the minimum wage policy has practically increased the poverty of the countries that practices it. Can you tell me which countries you are talking about?

You said many companies in USA, EU are relocating to other countries. But my question is: what is the effect on the their economies in terms of productivity and the well-being of the people? Are they still doing as well and have a good or better life than average?

You should read foxtrot's brilliant article on the other thread.

Quantum

Yes, I think the minimum wage policy has practically increased the poverty of the countries that practices it. One good example is the USA, she is fooling many, from 1971 after changing from gold to currency, its going down hill and the trillions it owes is partly due to its minimum wage policy. This policy cannot continue on the long run and I’m not quite sure if Obama will focus on this issue after revamping the health care system! If the USA is rich, do you think she needs the support of china and to a lesser extent India to continue with its failed policies one of which is the minimum wage policy?

Is it not obvious to You, the effects on the these economies in terms of productivity and the well-being of the people?

More Unemployment and lesser jobs, just to name a few!

It may seems to us that they are doing well and have a good or better life than most of us in Asia or the 3rd world countries but the point is they will not be able to sustain their growth and will slide, if no corrections are done in a jiffy!

Thank I’ll try and read foxtrot's brilliant article on the other thread.

I do agree that some of Jufrie's article and some of the other comments.
The Malay community has specific problems which mush be specifically addressed.
However, when doing so, please regard these as some of Singapore's problem and not think in terms of Malay or Chinese.
I object specially to the term "Chinese" emperor used by someone.
Whilst I do not vote for the PAP, I cannot vote for those who do not think in terms of "Singaporeans" or Majulah Singapura.

Claude:
That you owe a lot of money does not necessary implies that you are poor. Many Singaporeans owe the banks tons of money after buying their real estate, but that does not imply that they are poor, especially when they can relax and enjoy rental incomes or capital gains. Innovative entrepreneurs taking loans as a leverage to do business and invest is a good practice and has earned the US tons of profits over the many decades. These profit have enabled their citizens to enjoy a better life and better pay than than say China, with all the cancer villages, coal mines, selling blood and kidneys, export of prostitutes etc. The key issue here is profit and efficiency. China's per capital GDP is so low that it is not even in the G8 nations, even though the people there work harder than the Americans. You need to work smart, not work hard. ( I know Confucius never say that, but what does he know?)

Your premise of owing money means poor is a fallacy, and you have still not provided a real example of a country that becomes poor because of a minimum wage policy.

Quantum

OK, the rich borrows beyond their means, live further than their means and these are the people and countries that are considered RICH and progressive, So be it!

Are you sure the majority of people in the USA are well to do? If the USA did so well in business and invested in good practices and had earned the US tons of profits over the many decades in the past, as claim by you, why do you think they need China, India, Japan, Saudi, UAE, etc to prop their economy?

Is the motor industry, on the whole in the USA, profitable and efficient? China's per capital GDP may be low and not among the G8 nations but atleast they need no borrow from the USA or others?

@Claude:

[1] "Yes, I think the minimum wage policy has practically increased the poverty of the countries that practices it...
..."More Unemployment and lesser jobs, just to name a few!"

Err dude, did you know that China has a statutory minimum wage policy? It's been in place since 1993 and employers are generally supportive of it. Now, you tell me if employment has gone up or down in the last 16 years and whether poverty has increased or decreased in China since then.

Fundamentally, a MWP only shows negative effects when set at too high a level. Then it is those businesses competing with low wage economies that most keenly feel the pressure. Seagate has just dumped Singapore (which has no MWP) and skipped off to China (which does). That ought to be warning enough that pointing a finger at MWP for impacting employment is simplistic and a red herring for other failures.

[2] "Your premise of owing money means poor is a fallacy..."

Quantum is correct.
Japan's National Debt at 836,521 trillion yen is a staggering 172.1% of its 2008 GDP. Singapore also has a Public Debt that's 99.2% of its 2008 GDP. Despite this, both nations are considered affluent. As is the USA even though it has borrowed trillions to pour into fixing the banking crisis. It's not the amount that determines whether a nation is rich or poor, it is its ability to service the debt that matters.

Btw, the CIA World Factbook ranks Japan at #2, Singapore at #7, UK at #35, USA at #61, and China at #101 in decreasing order of government indebtedness as a percentage of GDP2008. China has relatively miniscule debt but it's still considered poor.

Although I am not the one who accused Jufrie of NATO, his listing of 16 points of “action” amounts to ..... just a listing. Even if Jufrie, led by his doughty leader CSJ, repeats the wish-list often enough, whether in this website or along pavements, it still does not constitute as “action”. But I accept the argument sometimes floated that as opposition, and especially as yet unelected to parliament, it is hard to prove one’s intent with “action”.

What Jufrie probably intended with the 16 points was to show that SDP has proposals, beyond throwing darts at the ruling parties. We can give SDP at least some credit for having concretised what it. Some of the proposals are unrealistic, others idealistic.

I suppose idealism is something that most opposition around the world have the luxury of, until the day they (ever) come into power and need to really take “action”, realistically. And, not to forget, be accountable for these actions as well.

Personally, I agree with several of the proposals, even if usually for a different set of reasons. For example, I think that the Ministers' salaries should come down, but not because it would “bring (the ministers’) feet closer to the ground”. The Ministers have lost the moral highground by paying themselves so highly when benchmarked across their “trade”. Others proposals I disagree, because they are more to serve the purposes of the opposition.

It is just a mask when Jufrie says that that these proposals are to “improve the lives of Singaporeans as a whole.”

Claud,

I am definitely not advocating that religion be brought into the mainstream if it can be a source of conflict.

Islam is a peace loving and progressive religion and I am advocating that Islamic teachings be brought meaningfully into the picture to help solve the multitude of problems within the Malay/Muslim community leading to the emergence of dysfuntiona families.

I said "Mosques must be made to play a more active role in disseminating the right values".

This is because I strongly believe that "Muslims ingrained with the right religious knowledge will have the moral strengh to resist drugs and normally lead a more responsible lifestyle".

I don't see how such focussed and pro-active dissemination of noble religious values among Malay/Muslim families can lead to the creation of an "atomic time bomb" that will obliterate all the other suggestions put up by me, which you can agree with.

What probably colours your thinking and that of other non Muslims at large - especially those in the western world -
is the relentless negative reporting about Islam.

No doubt a small section of the Muslim community has been carrying out a campaign of distruction and murder of the innocents. But let it be known that Islam neither promotes nor condones such atrocities.

I do not wish to escalate this discussion by mentioning the atrocities committed against innocent Muslims in other parts of the world - especially by Israel - and which did not receive the kind of backlash and condemnation that they should.

I am focusing my attention on the half a century failure of the PAP government to bring about real progress in the building of a truly multi racial nation where no single community can claim to have been discriminated one way or another.

g_e

Err dude, Did I state, anywhere in my responses that China had no minimum wage policy?

Furthermore for your information, China's first minimum wage law was implemented on 1 March 2004 and not since 1993, as you claimed.

[1] "Err dude, Did I state, anywhere in my responses that China had no minimum wage policy?"

Err no, dude, you didn't do so explicitly but that's irrelevant. You argued vehemently that MW policies negatively impact employment. If I may remind you of just one line, you asserted without substantiation: 'More Unemployment and lesser jobs, just to name a few!'

You are being called on that with China as a case in point and it's no good trying to beat about the bush to obfuscate the issue. Simply rebut or recant.


[2] "Furthermore for your information, China's first minimum wage law was implemented on 1 March 2004 and not since 1993, as you claimed."

Uh, Cheesypedia is all very well dude, but you need to look a little deeper. Please look at China's Labour Law: Regulations on Minimum Wages, Labour Act, 1994, and Regulations Concerning Minimum Wages In Enterprises, 1993.

It is the responsibility of the State to implement a system of guaranteed minimum wages and that has been so since 1993. But there was no explicit NATIONAL minimum wage rate in China until 2004, instead minimum wage rates were set by REGION. That is why 2004 was (incorrectly) called China's FIRST minimum wage law. OK, bubba?

Claude,

Lets come back to the situation at home, a first world nation created by the PAP.

Our uncles and aunties,pakcik and makcik and, appas and achies who render their services to the nation at the toilet zones and food centres, cleaning tables are paid a meserable sum of about $600 per month (26 days per month, 8 hrs per day). This works out to just $23 per day or $2.90 per hr.

Do you now understand what the MM meant when he said a "low paying job is better than no job?"

You may say that what these elder citizens are doing are not in the crucial sectors of a high flying economy.

Lets then imagine a situation where the toilets at our first rate Changi Airport and the food centres, including the tables, are not attended to for just a week. Can you imagine the havoc it would cause?

It reminds me of a joke where all vital organs of a human body broke into loud laughter ridiculing the arshole which said that it deserved to be the leader.It became so annoyed that it decided to close up. After a just few days the other organs gave up and proclaimed the arshole leader.

On a more serious note, we can begin by having a minimum wage policy by the different sectors of our industries and gradually make improvements as we move along. What say you, Claude?

I'd rather not join in on the discussion on MW, but was surprised that China has made such a move.

The example given in wikipedia was for Guangdong Province : The highest is US$0.68 an hour (in Guangzhou city). The lowest is US$0.39 an hour.

I suppose things are dirt cheap in China, but at 39 US cents an hour as minimum for any workers there, compared to the rates for our poor uncles and aunties working in the food courts (as quoted by Jufrie)?

Maybe we can also have an "affordable" MW policy here....

g_e

“Obfuscate” you must be joking?

Instead of letting your fingers do the working, it will be useful if your feet do the walking and checking the actual situation in china so that china’s “Minimum Wages” will be better grasped by you.

In fact, 1993, 1994 or 2004 makes no difference, China's Minimum Wages “implementation” is unlike those of the USA or some European countries. The Chinese are no idiots, unlike some foolish Americans and Europeans, their minimum wage rates are more for the MNCs and for some selected sectors / companies more for “show” or perhaps to stop the west from harassing them!

The fact is till today there is NO explicit NATIONAL minimum wage rate in the whole of China, only on paper at the most, get it Err dude!

Hello Jufrie

I have no doubt, at all, that Islam is a peace loving and was a progressive religion especially during “our uncles and aunties, pakcik and makcik and, appas and achies” era and on the whole Muslims are law abiding citizens till today.

You know very well there is no consensus even within the Malay/Muslim community here, today, as to the basic methods acceptable of teaching and preaching to all Muslims. So how can you advocate that Islamic teachings be brought meaningfully into the picture to help solve the multitude of problems within the Malay/Muslim community?

How can the Mosques be made to play a more active role in disseminating the right values when men run it? Each Imam or Mullah will most probably have his own interpretation and each will say his version is the right!
So the next question is which is the right version?

Unfortunately this Noble religion and its values are misunderstood and misused by some and the majority are just followers and helpless so blaming the non-Muslims at large and the western world is the “unifying” factor, I guess!

Here you go blaming Israel for the atrocities committed against innocent Muslims, it’s a similar tune i have heard from almost all terrorist acts that had killed hundreds if not thousands of innocent lives.

Israel acts should be condemned and the tide is changing against them but that is another story.


On Minimum Wages, Why start with only “our uncles and aunties, pakcik and makcik and, appas and achies”?

Once you implement Minimum Wages, there is no stopping. I’m aware of the sad situation you described but these are more due to the exploitation by employers, govt and trade unions, what say you?

"Then why are motorcyclists allowed to wear masked helmet and Mercedes allowed to have black windows?"

Um, I think the helmets are needed for safety, much like how a car has a windshield.

Also, vehicles are already identifiable by the compulsory license plate.

"Once you implement Minimum Wages, there is no stopping"

How is this so?

Err dude Claude, I just told you China's MW Policy was regional till 2004 and you're parroting it back to me. And if '...in fact, 1993, 1994 or 2004 makes no difference...' why bother bringing it up in the first place?

Be that as it may you're ducking the main course, which is that MWP leads to 'More Unemployment and lesser jobs, just to name a few!' I'm still waiting for you to substantiate that bold assertion instead of faffing around.

You now suggest that China's MWP is unlike that of other nations, their minimum wage rates are more for “show”, and other nationalities are 'idiots'. Of course you have established these rash claims for a fact and can justify what you say? I ask because otherwise you could simply be charged with making wild accusations and dismissed as a raving loony, right?

I'm perfectly happy to be won over by your scintillating argument. Over to you.

The fact that Islam is peace loving and progressive will never change. It is only when the religion gets hijacked by those with a different agenda that it becomes a problem.

So what we need to do here and now is to prevent the religion from being hijecked. And in this I see a role for Dr. Yaacob, the highly paid Minister In Charge of Muslim Affairs, who will have to make sure that MUIS does its job properly in making sure that mosques and other religious institutions/organisation make sure that Islamic religious knowledge is properly imparted.

As for MW surely we have to start somewhere don't we? So why not give the poor souls some justice by making it compulsory for them to be decently paid?. Why should they be victimised. After all they put in a lot of effort and spend equal number of hours to do their work. The MW policy is precisely meant to prevent exploitation!

Since employers, trade unions and the government (PAP-NTUC symbiotic relationship) cannot be counted on because they are steadfast in holding on to the principles of tripartism, others will have to move in and stand up for our workers rights.

g_e -

Err dude, my point to you, its NOT china its NOT even regionally in china but applicably to a selective sector.

If you believe that MW will lead to “More Employment” so be it!

Hello Jufrie

Dr. Yaacob and MUIS, are they not doing exceptionally well in “controlling” the mosques, Islamic schools and organizations in context with our society?

Are you saying we should follow the religious knowledge based on the system eg Malaysia, Saudi or Pakistan? If not, which ideal system will you recommend?

Sure you can start somewhere but I’m more concerned with the end results!

I believe the exploitation of these poor souls will continue one way or another with or without the MW.

I guess, MW will most probably make a good vote buying strategy!

Juffrie thanks for listing your suggestions. However I would say that some of the points are not new, others are idealistic (freedom of speech is supposed to help these Malays with problem? Come off it! It won't even put food on the table what more change mindsets.) While others are more general and not specific to the issues discussed. So thank you for the trouble but I am still not impressed.

I am not sure using religion would work on these people.

Ya..and a fat lot of good talking about Israel will do to help our poor/those with problems in Singapore..be realistic lah dey.

"...my point to you, its NOT china its NOT even regionally in china but applicably to a selective sector."

So it's shifted from National MW to Regional MW and now down to "selective sector" MW scam, huh? Hands up all those who noticed that you did not (a) name the sector and (b) back up your claim with some facts. What next? Minimum Wage flouted in two shops off the east side of Nanjing Lu?

Heh, pinning you down is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. I was prepared to cut you some slack but you appear to be firing blanks. How can you expect anyone to take seriously your agenda that the grossly overpaid Yaacob (gets paid more than the President of the USA, for heaven's sake!) and his gang are doing such a wonderful job for the Malay community when you can't even back up some simple points about MW?

C'mon dude, show readers that you're not all hot air and BS with no substance to your wild assertations. You wouldn't want us to begin to suspect that Claude rhymes with 'fraud', now would you?

g_e

ERROR dude,

Getting personnel is your of winning, I guess!

Alas, you got the point
Your mention of china may just amount to “ two shops off the east side of Nanjing Lu”.

Finally it had sink in!

Merry X;mas ERR dude

Oh dear, what a shame you're still prevaricating, Claude you old fraud. Btw, that means "Being deliberately ambiguous or unclear in order to mislead or withhold information".

I'll just have to call up HR and get a change of, err, 'personnel' since you show signs of becoming tired and incoherent, dude. Hahaha, Season's Greetings to you too. Don't gorge on too much (humble) pie will you?

"How can the Mosques be made to play a more active role in disseminating the right values when men run it? Each Imam or Mullah will most probably have his own interpretation and each will say his version is the right! So the next question is which is the right version"

Totally an ignorant on others' faith, so much assumption on Islam.

FYI, Islam has only ONE version. Find out more b4 you spit off your saliva talking about my faith.

Well, interesting that some people have no other way to express themselves than calling names, when a question does not favor them.. wonder who is the real "jerk".

Jufrie, you have apparently the incorrect definition of SAP schools -

"You give the impression that you may not be fully aware of what SAP schools are. They are special schools which promotes the use of only one language which runs counter to the principle of multi-racialism. State resources which could be shared with others are poured into such schools. Students do not get to mingle with those of other races. This will breed the kind of people who may not be sensitive to the needs of the minorities."

It does NOT promote the use of ONLY omne language. The deifinition of SAP schools, which I have googled for is -

The Special Assistance Plan (Abbreviation: SAP; simplified Chinese: 特选补助课程) is a programme in Singapore which caters to academically strong students who excel in both their mother tongue as well as English. It is only available in selected secondary schools. In a SAP school, several subjects may be taught in the mother tongue, alongside other subjects which are taught in English. Currently, SAP schools only cater to those studying the Mandarin mother tongue, although theoretically, future SAP schools for other mother tongues are a possibility.

The one you've googled has the same meaning to a point.

The difference are only the expression. One with detail to explain and the other sounds much alike but with worries.